I think it’s more tangible in the US.
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kava@lemmy.world 4 months ago
There are right wing populists in virtually every democracy these days. It’s not an issue unique to the US. I think it’s a byproduct of our times. Economic uncertainty + geopolitical tensions and war = hard shift to the right.
fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de 4 months ago
Obi@sopuli.xyz 4 months ago
Definitely, while it’s true everywhere is shifting right, the US is starting off from a much further right starting point.
png@discuss.tchncs.de 4 months ago
Yes but Germany saw millions of protestors over a sub-20% party. In the US, 50% of people want to vote in someone who is openly fascist and wants to abolish democracy and round up immigrants in camps.
kava@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Couple of things
There was a 62% voter turnout in the 2020 election. 46.8% of voters voted for Trump.
0.62 x 0.468 = .290
So actually, 29% of people voted for Trump.
If we do the same calculation for AfD in 2021. 76.6% voter turnout in Germany and AfD got 10.4% of votes.
0.766 x 0.104 = 0.799
So the difference looks like 29% to 8% US to Germany.
But you have to remember the US and Germany are different political systems. There are only two parties in the US, so each of the big parties (DNC, GOP) have many different factions. Moderate Republicans would be an entirely different party from Trumpian “MAGA” Republicans if the US had a party system like Germany.
They functionally ally together in order to form a government, much like different parties will do in parliamentary systems in Europe.
So if we for example take the center-right Christian conservative party and add that to AfD, which in my opinion more closely resembles the GOP, we get the following numbers.
76.6% voter turnout. AfD got 10.4% of votes. CDU got 24.1% of votes.
0.766 x (0.104 + 0.241) = .264
So we’re actually looking at a ratio more like 29% US to 26% Germany. Fundamentally not that different.
And last thing I’d like to add. Shifts in the political Overton window like we’re seeing right now happens at an exponential rate. It’s why Germany in the early 1900s went from a liberal democratic society to full blown Fascist dictatorship fairly quickly.
I think the process has started in the US first, but the movement is shifting to other countries too. US news is emphasized because of the importance of the US as a superpower, but this process of the hard shift to the right is happening in many countries.
We see it not only in certain parties gaining ground like Fratelli d’Italia, Sweden Democrats, Rassemblement National, Alternative für Deutschland, etc - but the rhetoric changing. Anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim rhetoric that would be rare a decade or two ago is seeing a large increase.
I view the US as the leader of the Zietgiest right now, much like Germany was the leader of the Zietgiest during WW2. It’s leading the pack, but we’re all headed towards the same destination.
JewishLeftist@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Fair enough