Comment on The way my daughter's middle school health class classifies drugs is insane.
Dasus@lemmy.world 7 months agoAnd it’s everyone’s business that people like you make drug reform impossible, because all the science agrees that the only way to solve “the drug problem” is to legalise and regulate everything.
You’re suffering from the same bias that transphobes who say “I can always spot trans people” do; you’re simply unaware of how blindingly ignorant you are of the reality of the situation.
ParabolicMotion@lemmy.world 7 months ago
No, as someone who has had many of the medical drugs they discuss in D.A.R.E., I wouldn’t compare myself to some cis gendered person who happens to be transphobic. That would be comparing opposites. I’m a person who has been given morphine several times in surgery, and after hemorrhaging in labor. I don’t think the government should legalize recreational use of morphine and regulate it. That seems dumb to me. D.A.R.E. doesn’t seem dumb. Sorry if you feel differently, but I don’t think we should legalize all drugs. You might argue for different drugs being legalized. I don’t want people that hate me to be allowed to carry drugs that they might put into my food order at a restaurant, either. You can’t assume that people who want to legally carry, or keep, drugs want to do so for personal use. It isn’t safe to have people carrying drugs on them that can be used to poison others. Not everyone who is into drugs is looking to party with you. Some are looking to get rid of people.
Dasus@lemmy.world 7 months ago
“They’ve given me opiates in a medical setting so that’s why I know recreational drugs are bad for society”
So, to reiterate, exactly your type of intelligently stupid willfull ignorance is one of the main reasons that we have so many drug problems. If people like you weren’t brainwashed so easily, if you actually spent even a tiny bit of time looking into this subject, you’d realise you’re wrong. But you won’t. You won’t.
I’ve argued about this longer than most of Lemmy users have been alive. I know all the science. I bet you know none of it.
Drug prohibition does not work and anyone who supports it is either ignorant or directly benefitting from the illegal drug trade. That’s it. There’s no other alternatives. There is not a single logical reason to keep the prohibition according to science. Everything improves with proper legal frameworks in which to sell the drugs that clearly can not be effectively banned.
This isn’t about “feelings”. It’s about cold facts. And the fact is that by your rhetoric, by your behaviour, you’re indirectly enabling drug abuse and all the heinous shit that cartels get up to. That is unless you’re willing to admit you’re wrong and start supporting a complete reformation of this inane law. That’s the only moral position.
These are the types of weird fantasy scenarios you have to make up and it still doesn’t even work, in the slightest. There are a dozen more dangerous chemicals in everyone’s cleaning cupboard than anything you’d find sold as a recreational substance. Why aren’t they banned? Why are people allowed to handle gasoline by themselves? You know you could torch people with gasoline, right? And we allow people to drive around in metal hunks filled with gas, as incredibly velocities? You know you can die just from falling down, right? You walk on the street, every day. Anyone could push you and with bad luck, kill you.
People like you honestly never stop to think about the things you say. They make absolutely no sense. And it doesn’t matter to you that you can’t make a single thing make sense when you’re trying to defend the drug prohibition. No… it’s just been stamped to your brain that “DRUGS = WRONG” and you don’t have the cognitive capability to question that.
Here, have a listen to what a former police officer who used to infiltrate drug gangs has to say about the war on drugs: youtu.be/y_TV4GuXFoA?si=SXdIKIP1ON43N594&t=716 (Hint: his memoir is called “Good Cop, Bad War”)
There is literally no other option than to have a properly managed and regulated legal trade of these recreational substances. To keep the situation were currently in, willfully, is to willfully endanger lives, perpetuate drug ABUSE (not use, which is different) and to support criminal gangs which don’t give a fuck about anyone.
Oh right, that copper is just one guy. Hmm how about globalcommissionondrugs.org/world-leaders-call-fo…
And I could literally paste studies and data here for several comments to max char limit and it still wouldn’t even make you question that maybe you should question your feelings on the matter in accordance with reality. I know it won’t, because I’ve had this exact same argument a million times, and it’s always the same. If you really wanted there to be less problems caused by drugs, you’d be in favour of legalising them, as backwards as it must sound to you. Because legalising is the only way to take the market out of the hands of the criminals, as the market will never, ever, ever, ever, EVER die.
ParabolicMotion@lemmy.world 7 months ago
You think that would end the illegal drug trade? People can legally own guns. They are legal to own and we have regulations for owning them. Guess what is still traded on the black market, and moved by gangs for cash? Guns are. Legalizing drugs will not solve the problem. Instead, you will have food service workers carrying drugs like opium on them, without legal repercussions. You want a blueberry smoothie your ex is making for you on your next lunch break? I guess it depends on who that is making it, and how much they hate you. I would hope they chose a lifestyle that didn’t involve drugs. Hopefully, it wouldn’t be a drive-thru order for you. Wouldn’t want someone to get drugs in their food and then drive away while consuming it.
I don’t have to agree with you. I just see too many problems arising from legalizing all drugs, as you suggested.
Dasus@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Oh and yes, it would send illegal trade to the extent ending the prohibition of alcohol did.
I live in Finland and black market drugs are 1000x easier to get than black market alcohol. Or black market guns for that matter. Both exist, but not really.
Everyone knows someone who sells drugs of some sort. Most people’s definitely don’t know people who sell alcohol or drugs. Well, alcohol is slightly more common, but usually it’s just flogged tax free or even completely legally ordered in bulk from Germany and then sold to friends.
But yeah, the science is in and yes, legalising drugs would kill the illegal drug trade.
Dasus@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Just like I said. You won’t even question your attitude, despite the overwhelming objective evidence that you’re wrong, despite everyone in the drug trade admitting to this, despite world leaders calling for legalisation. See what I mean when I say that it’s people like you who are responsible for the horrible drug situation that we have? That amount of willful ignorance is literally harmful to society.
Where exactly do you think the guns come from? From legal manufacturers. Comparing guns to drugs is appealing because they seem so similar, yet they both have the exact same solution: regulation.
The US doesn’t regulate drugs, and it doesn’t really regulate guns at all either. In other countries, black markets for guns are ridiculously negligible. They exist, sure, but they’re ridiculously small compared to the US and the Americas in general. Perhaps because the US has a military-industrial complex. Again, about what makes money for people.
The only way to properly implement regulation to guns is to have proper gun laws, which most other countries have. The US is a massive outlier in gun-violence, exactly because of the lack of regulation.
The argument is also disingenuous because there’s only violent uses for guns, but the same doesn’t apply for recreational substances. Show me one larger culture group of humans that don’t have some sort of recreational way to get their buzz on. Might take you a moment. But to point out a culture which doesn’t have guns at all, or at least nearly to the level the US does? Pick a map and throw a dart on it, you’ll more than likely land on an example.
This is exactly what I mean. You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, so you make these asinine arguments that were brainwashed into you. So what if your waiter has a pinch of opium in his pocket? Alcohol is legal. Waiters carry alcohol all the time, for work even. Why doesn’t that bother you? Is it perhaps because it’s not cool to drink on the job? Would legalising drugs make it so that it’s socially acceptable to be fucking smashed at work? I’ve heard a ton of variations of this moronic bs “argument.” “*B-B-Bbut if we legalise drugs, I’ll have to worry about my surgeon being high when he’s performing surgery” “I don’t want to have to be piloted by some junkie scum” Like… when did you last meet a drunk pilot? A drunk surgeon? A surgeon who’s high? They have constant access to high grade narcotics, you know. Again, exactly what I meant, saying that you have to make up these fantasy scenarios which would never ever happen and even then the logic doesn’t even work.
You should ask yourself why was the prohibition of alcohol repealed. Googling that you might come upon names like “Al Capone” and even something as familiar as “Machine Gun Kelly”, but this one isn’t about the rapper. (Shortly: organised crime got so out of hand and the toxicity of homemade booze and even government poisoned booze that it was insane and the situation couldn’t be continued without society falling apart.)
Legalising drugs makes them safer, gets them out of the hands of criminals, meaning taxes for the government, health for drug abusers, and less stigma for responsible drug users. Yes, we exist, much like gays did even back in the 50’s. They just weren’t talked about all that much, for some weird reason. It’s not even just about what good it will do. It’s also about personal liberty.
“I don’t have to agree with you.” No, you don’t, but this isn’t my opinion. This is reality. So you’re saying “I don’t have to agree with reality and objective facts.” Which is exactly what I said in the first place; willful ignorance.
You did exactly as I said you would, and protested loudly, but I bet you didn’t read a single one of those links or even watch the 5 second clip. There really aren’t any other options except being ignorant of the matter or directly benefitting from drugs being illegal. Those are the only two type of people who think prohibition should be maintained. And if you think “I don’t think they should be legalised but I don’t benefit from illegal drugs in any way” then you’re in the former group.