We have a lower tax burden than most of Europe, or at least the ones with decent healthcare. data.oecd.org/tax/tax-revenue.htm
Comment on Public satisfaction with NHS falls to lowest level on record
steeznson@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Was forced to go private to get my partner’s IUD replaced recently. Her existing one had expired and we tried for months to use the NHS booking system that had worked for us 5 and 10 years ago. Checking daily, no appointments.
Why are we paying taxes for the NHS if we need to drop £700 on a procedure that ought to be free? Ditto with dentists.
This is european levels of taxation for US levels of public service. Maybe we need to look at what France and Germany are doing with their system and copy them.
stsquad@lemmy.ml 8 months ago
myliltoehurts@lemm.ee 8 months ago
That could be part of the reason, but the NHS has rapidly deteriorated over the course of the last 5ish years. It used to be pretty decent not so long ago, and our taxes didn’t exactly drop. So while most public healthcare systems get strained over time due to the aging population problem, it shouldn’t be this drastic.
The pandemic has surely strained it, but it doesn’t feel like it’s on the path to recovery, more like circling the drain.
The 2 more obvious things (to me) as far as the reasons go: an absolutely malicious government - who would sell us all for meat if they could - with little competition and brexit (courtesy of said government)
steeznson@lemmy.world 8 months ago
If you look at the tax on personal income on that graph we are above France and the OECD average.
stsquad@lemmy.ml 8 months ago
I think narrowing it down to one tax type isn’t overly helpful. Ultimately it comes down to spending and policy. We underspend and we are more reactive: data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm
Systems that are insurance based (ignoring the mess that is the usa) at least have an incentive to catch things early because they are cheaper to deal with before they become chronic. With delays in primary care and waiting lists we end up getting much less bang for our buck as conditions develop before getting treatment.
palordrolap@kbin.social 8 months ago
Our blue powers-that-be are talking about getting rid of National Insurance as swing-voter catcher for the next election (whenever that might be). NI underpins many things, including the NHS.
Now there's something about only a small percentage of NI going to the NHS, but who's behind that exactly? Oh. Blue people again.
And then they say "See! See how rubbish the NHS is! It cannot work! Go private! What's that? You don't have money? Get a better job! Go private! It's easy! This has nothing to do with ideology and we certainly haven't been actively making the NHS worse! Go private! We have shares in private! Oops shouldn't have said that! Vote for us!"
stsquad@lemmy.ml 8 months ago
NI is just another tax that goes into the total pot, albeit one that is not progressive and adds to the cost of employment. I’d be happy with it being scrapped and it all going on income tax, perhaps with a scaled employer contribution component. How about the employer contributes a scaled percentage for all employees over the median income for the company?
palordrolap@kbin.social 8 months ago
NI is just another tax that goes into the total pot
It's not supposed to be that way though. It has only become that way through many tiny changes so that now it's indistinguishable from "yet another income tax".
The entire point of its existence was to fund the welfare state, including the NHS, and the government we've had most of in the last 50 years absolutely despises welfare. Unless it's for people who already have too much money and businesses "too big to fail" anyway.
JoBo@feddit.uk 8 months ago
Maybe we need to look at what France and Germany are doing with their system and copy them.
They’re funding theirs.
The Tories (and Labour) are trying to privatise ours. Which obviously won’t make it any cheaper because idle shareholders will be siphoning off a hefty chunk into the tax havens that neither the Tories nor Labour will shut down. In the meantime, they’re pulling the same trick they did with British Rail: underfund it until it’s easy to kill off and sell cheap to their rich backers so they can charge us more for less.
stsquad@lemmy.ml 8 months ago
European systems have quite a bit of private provision but they are still generally single payer and heavily regulated. Private involvement in healthcare doesn’t automatically involve what they created in the USA.
jabjoe@feddit.uk 8 months ago
That always the argument made, while possible contracted are lined up with big US private health companies.
mannycalavera@feddit.uk 8 months ago
Maybe we need to look at what France and Germany are doing with their system and copy them.
Non starter, sorry. Mention the P word in the same sentence as the NHS and get wrecked. It’s so stupidly dumb, but it’s not even a viable topic to discuss. It’s one below a hate crime.
jabjoe@feddit.uk 8 months ago
Because it’s nearly always done disingenuously. The Tories say this and then get US health companies ready for a fire sale. They have been running down the NHS, “starving the beast”, to try and reduce public support for it so they can sell it. (To their US mates)
The reality is France and Germany have put more in for longer, so got more.
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mannycalavera@feddit.uk 8 months ago
There’s that aspect, I do agree. But then there’s also the aspect that any discussion of this gets shut down and never spoken about seriously in any public debates. When was the last time you heard a sensible pro and cons debate on the French or German model on, say, Question Time? It usually gets derailed by someone claiming that mentioning these other systems equals privatisation from the US.
Actually, when was the last time you heard a sensible debate on anything on QT?
jabjoe@feddit.uk 8 months ago
Money is clearly the big issue. It’s been underfunded for a long time, so will need more to catch up.
Anything else is almost just fiddling round the edges, or worse, an excuse to sell it to Tory’s funders. Other European more private systems are just a bait and switch because it’s US companies who’ll come in.
myliltoehurts@lemm.ee 8 months ago
I’ve started seeing private health insurance on job adverts as a benefit more and more as well recently… Which feels alarmingly US-like as well.