I forgot to add, when admins of an instance say stuff like "In my opinion, this is an extraordinarily dumb act by the beehaw instance owners. It’s worse for beehaw users than for us, and will likely result in many beehaw users leaving that instance. They said in their post that this is a nuke, but I don’t think they fully assessed the blast area. Based on their post, I don’t think they fully understand what defederation does" in their formal statements, it doesn't exactly feel like an invitation to a conversation that is grounded in mutual respect.
rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 10 months ago
Sometimes software developers and network admins are a bit blunt when expressing their opinion. The thought behind that is: What really matters are facts and right and wrong, not feelings. And those people sometimes are nerds. They care about software, and how to solve technical problems. Not so much about emotions and the people who have a different way of thinking. This can be everything from problematic to a legitimite way to express their feelings. I think it is warranted in this case. The decision affects many people and is a hassle for the admins and mods. They are entitled to express that they do not agree and think it is not sustainable/dumb from their perspective.
hoodatninja@kbin.social 10 months ago
I understand that but if you're pitching "the admins need to sit down and hash it out" then the fact that one group just proclaimed "not only are they dumb but they don't even know how fediverse works" is incredibly germain the conversation. Being blunt doesn't give someone a pass if they sound condescending/dismissive. They just sound condescending dismissive. Being an "engineer" doesn't excuse one from using basic social etiquette.
rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 10 months ago
I don’t think anyone will be able to hash anything out. It is a fundamentally different way of approaching things.
Beehaw wants to be a safe-space with strict rules. They dont want fast growth and do not want open registrations.
The other instances want to provide (many) new users with accounts. They give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they actually misbehave. Even if it means more effort for their moderators.
There is no compromise. I think we need to split the network. Or beehaw needs to disable federation altogether and be done with it. There might be a technical solution with something like Pleroma’s Message Rewrite Facility (MRF) but at this point we don’t have super fine controls on lemmy (yet).
I’m not sure if I’d like to excuse any way of talking. I like that direct way of talking. They attacked a decision, not any person. I also like to say whatever i want while solving problems, without any complicated social etiquette or putting additional effort in social interactions. Sometimes I’m right, sometimes somebody else tells me I did a bad descision. I can handle that. I just think being blunt, overstepping a bit or being allowed to vent is a healty way of dealing with human emotions.
But sure. I don’t get to decide how you (or the beehaw admins) like to be addressed. And what I said is only true for limited things. I don’t like attacking people or yelling at people. That’s not okay. But they didn’t do that.
hoodatninja@kbin.social 10 months ago
I'd agree with that except they are doing it as a public-facing "official" statement, which generally should be a bit more "professional" in tone IMO. I would certainly describe it as an attack. At its more charitable it was just incredibly passive aggressive and unnecessary. You can say "we believe this is a mistake" without accusing people of being ignorant.