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kolmaskommentoija@sopuli.xyz ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

That ethical problem could be solved (well, not if you are “fully” vegan, and view even keeping pets and livestock, unacceptable), by doing good small-scale production. Factory farming producing the inhuman conditions, is needed to make the operations economically sustainable, in the way it is build into capitalist systems. But if you would keep the cows well, milk products could be made quite ethically… Now of course the costs needed to do that would make milk extremely expensive, and small-scale could not replace the massive demand, so people would have to consume way less anyway.

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raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

But if you would keep the cows well, milk products could be made quite ethically…

Could be - but that would also mean taking milk away from the calves for a while. Not sure how much milk a cow would be able to continue to give and what the quality would be after the calf has had enough to outgrow infancy.

Now eggs however, those could be absolutely produced without animal suffering. Just be willing to pay more for the eggs so that hens can live free range in natural environments, and still get to continue living when they produce less or even no more eggs until they die from natural causes.

I don’t see a big ethical problem with snatching an unfertilised egg, considering that hens are able to lay like one egg a day. They won’t miss it if you take away a bunch of them and let them breed out the odd one.

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- kolmaskommentoija@sopuli.xyz ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  Could be - but that would also mean taking milk away from the calves for a while. Not sure how much milk a cow would be able to continue to give and what the quality would be after the calf has had enough to outgrow infancy.
  
  This is doable, especially with the cows, that have been bred to produce milk. You do not even need to separate the mom and calf, for more than a moment, to milk, so we do know it is possible. You just get less milk, than by taking the calf away, so it is not profitable in comparison. There are other problems though, like they should be able to feed mostly by pasture grazing, which takes a lot of land, and if you do not kill some of the cows and bulls for food, you will have way too many… etc.
  
  And with eggs - yes. The EU standards for “bio” eggs are already better (very far from perfect though), so it might be possible to do profitably even. A big ethical problem with factory farming chickens right now, though, is the process of mass producing the egg-laying chickens themselves. Hens are kept, but the male chicks might be just thrown into a shredder. Even if all of them were raised, a lot of the cocks would have to be killed, since there would be carnage otherwise, as you cannot keep them together, and you have to have multiple hens more than cocks in a flock. This also applies if you keep chickens in your backyard, so there are always excess cocks being given away, that nobody wants, and many end up as food.
  
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  - raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Poor roosters. I believe the best solution for that would be the “in ovo” gender detection. One article here: www.sciencedirect.com/…/S003257912300425X - in an ethical egg production scenario, the quoted machine learning could actually be viable: the false positive roosters are simply lucky, and get raised to adulthood / live a happy life ;) If the reason for false positives is not self-enforcing through genetics, they could even be the normal “fathers of the next generation”.
    
    Assuming, of course, the false positive rate can be lowered enough.
    
    Re: milk - I have to say, for drinking, if you find a good brand, oat milk can be very tasty - I personally even think it tastes better in coffee / cappuccino than regular milk. And cheese - I just happen to have bought this hour for the first time a delicious vegan “Brie” variant: vanozza.de/en/produkte.html#brie-pfeffer I am positively surprised, after the last couple of tries I no longer thought I would see the day - but this one is actually yummy!
    
    For oat milk: tastewise best is Oatly Barista, but Oatly is in bed with investors from fascistan, so I go for the second best option which is also delicious: Lidl house brand vemondo, barista drink. Important: it must be the one produced by Grønvang (gronvang.dk/?lang=en) - the one by Green & White from Vlissingen/NL tastes bland / watery in comparison.
    
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    kolmaskommentoija@sopuli.xyz ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Oh, I hope they make breakthroughs with the “in ovo” system, that sounds really promising.
    
    And good tips for the oat milks and cheese! I usually just buy one cheap store brand, that is made here in Finland, since I like the really bland taste of it, lol. The least chemically tasting I have found! I also have one vegan cheese I like, but it too, is sold only locally…
    
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