Comment on Anon reads nihilist philosophy
schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 2 hours agoI’m not sure what concessions Catholicism has. It built itself into a major political player and was the spiritual foundation of the feudal system and king’s right to rule… and this for over a thousand years.
The Catholic Church was aware there was stuff in the bible that wouldn’t go in its favor, which is why they killed anyone who tried to translate it into a popular language… At the same time, all these priests and bishops and cardinals and popes COULD read it, and they consistently chose to support their own power. Very human, that, craving power above all else.
One defining weirdness of Christianity is the emphasis is puts on FAITH, on protestations of belief. I don’t think even Judaism cares that much about it.
But the religious situation around Jesus’ time was absolutely WILD. I’d start with The Life of Brian, but then read about the Gnostic Gospels. There were cults springing up all over the place, each with their own vibe-coded stories that were ChatGPTd from prevailing culture. I think thinking of “Judaism” as an unitary religion/culture is a bit of anachronism.
sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz 1 hour ago
Alright this is going to be a bit of an indulgent bpersonal diatribe, but hear me out. Generally when I’m assessing the worth of religion I try to look at the cost/benefit of it existing, not really whether it’s factually true or politically just. Catholicism definitely full of lies and its atrocities are really the same as any monarchist structure and equally indefensible. Also as you say, craven.
But here’s what people within it at the very bottom are getting from the deal:
Agreed, though. That’s kind of one of the things I appreciate about Judaism, the pluralism and the de-emphasis on Faith. I’ve been dipping my toes tentatively into some Gnostic histories, and proto Christian stuff. I’ll look at the Gnostic Gospels next, then. Do you have a personal favorite little blorbo from cults of that period?
schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 1 hour ago
I thought I’d get a lot out of reading the Gnostic texts directly, but it was mostly the same religious garbage I’ve outgrown. One thing that really kills the vibe for me is when people take religion, you know, religiously. Seriously unreadable trash, chapter after chapter about how GREAT God is, as if greatness automatically made something worthy of worship. Servile horseshit.
I got a lot more out the prison planet subreddit, which is sort of gnosticism redux for people with obvious delusion and people like me, interested in the power of a radically different perspective.
It’s really interesting that imagining the world as a place created as a prison to torture us IMMEDIATELY makes so much more sense than the tri-omni God of traditional Christiainity, but offering that as a possibility had to be heavily regulated at the edge of a sword… makes you realize how much of religious debate is based on a very narrow range of choices. Pascal’s Wager works in the popular imagination because the bedrock assumption is that there is only one God that exists and that we are choosing to believe in the right one. When you consider infinite gods and infinite risks of choosing the wrong one, the wager falls apart.
sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz 1 hour ago
Oh damn, this made me have to look up Pascal’s Wager in order to follow and that is NOT what I thought it was. And it’s not nearly as actionable as I was giving it credit for.
For sure, though. It’s not like Gnostic thought is terribly useful in a modern context. It’s just the joy of discovering old models of belief. Also they’re colorful. I mostly wanted to know if you have any favorite characters from it because most people who engage with that or pre-Christian cults tend to find a funny little guy that they latch onto.
There’s a couple people who I interacted with who have derived some personal viable uses from the Gnosticism, but it’s kind of way too specific to recommend widely.
schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 52 minutes ago
Pascal’s Wager was intended to be taken seriously, but it sort of took on a life of its own.
Yes, and Gnosticism is definitely cool; just saying reading the source texts is a pretty miserable experience. Better to Monster Manualize it, boil it down to critters and cosmology without the lard of worship.
And, yes, there were a lot of people attracted to world-as-torture-device, but it’s interesting that can invalidate a philosophy when the countervailing philosophy of God Loves Us attracts a greater amount of disordered thinking… This is an artifact of exactly what we’re talking about–the need for people to avoid acknowledging existentially destabilizing realities. Check out The Last Messiah for more on that.
Back to Catholicism: it’s a religion. All religions have psychological and social value, lest they would not exist. There’s not any real point to rate and compare religions, because I believe they are simply the result of society and not its determiners.