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Comment on ChatGPT, LLMs, and Automating the Fun Out of Roleplaying: Don’t let billionaires poison the beautiful creative collaboration at the heart of TTRPGs

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apotheotic@beehaw.org ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

I contain multitudes. I can protest the mass growth of datacentres for other industries as well as for AI.

I hadn’t mentioned water usage, but since you bring it up, AI datacentres are being plopped down willy nilly and sucking up all the water from their local area, causing drought. Thats one stark difference between it and agriculture, which isn’t having the same kind of local effect.

However, the US (and other) agriculture+ industry (again, I contain multitudes) doesn’t get a pass. Estimates vary, but it looks like about 30-50% of US agriculture water usage goes to feed which is destined for livestock for the meat industry. I’d say that a person can be both against AI and an outspoken vegan against the meat industry, wouldn’t you?

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TehPers@beehaw.org ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Before AI, people had been advocating against the meat industry, and had pushed for reduced water usage in agriculture and homes, which led to stricter rules against lawns in drought-prone areas. It being drowned out by the advocacy against AI doesn’t mean those voices disappeared, just that there are louder voices now.

I do enjoy the classic “they’re doing bad so I can too” fallacy, though.

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- apotheotic@beehaw.org ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I’m confused, it seems we agree with eachother - did you mean to reply to the person I replied to, or were you just adding on to my point? :D
  
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  - TehPers@beehaw.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Just adding to your comment lol.
    
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    its_me_xiphos@beehaw.org ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    I’m hesitant to jump in here, seeing how far off the rails this went, but AI Data Centers have a plethora of problems. Potable water depletion (The Dalles, OR, USA), Exhaust (Boxtown near Memphis, TN, USA), Noise and lowering water tables (Sydeney, Australia). The issues they present over “old school” data centers are amplified because of the speed, resources, power (as in influence) that are part of the package.
    
    They are being built rapidly, with little oversight or research, and suck up enormous resources that “old school” data centers did not. Toss in the ethical concerns as wide ranging as stealing the Gibli Style to destroying books; to be normative, that tends to piss people off.
    
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- Mordikan@kbin.earth ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  "they're doing bad so I can too"
  
  I don't think you understand that the "so I can" part implies you. By virtue of even posting, YOU are pushing datacenter demand. These comments don't just live in the ether. The whole point is you are cherry picking what you are upset about based on what is trending (as you even mentioned). The point being you are MORE upset about the lesser evil, not that one is justified evil and the other isn't.
  
  If you enjoy the Two Wrongs Make Right fallacy, then I think you'll love the Special Pleading fallacy.
  
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  - TehPers@beehaw.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    
    By virtue of even posting, YOU are pushing datacenter demand. These comments don’t just live in the ether.
    
    I write software for a living. There’s an enormous difference between a text-based service that functionally runs as a primitive CRUD and a compute-heavy service like LLM inferencing. The latter runs on servers that individually consume multiple kilowatts while the former can run on a raspberry pi but gains efficiency by sharing a server that consumes maybe 1kW with dozens of other people. Heck, Lemmy doesn’t even need to do video transcoding like all the toxic social media sites do.
    
    The point being you are MORE upset about the lesser evil, not that one is justified evil and the other isn’t.
    
    No, people are upset about all the evils. Being more or less upset about one or the other is irrelevant. You’re just choosing to cherry pick one thing that everyone who’s upset should ignore.
    
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    Mordikan@kbin.earth ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Can run on a raspberry pi and does run on a raspberry pi are two different things. I don't think raspberry pis are the solution here. I'm not cherry picking either as both are clear evils. That is the point. Current non-AI datacenters are using more power in total than AI datacenters. That may (and likely will) change, but the argument that AI datacenters are destroying the environment when the other is destroying it even more (but let's ignore that one) is moronic by nature.
    
    That by definition isn't cherry picking. It's pointing out the logical fallacy in popular thought.
    
    I work in devops. There is little difference in current overall consumption rates.
    
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Mordikan@kbin.earth ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
AI datacenters do not cause drought. There is no evidence to support that claim. And if you think you do have evidence, I would love to see the source.

And you totally can contain multitudes. People should be like that. But they in practice aren't. They follow what is trending. For example, if you look through your comment history how many comments will be pertaining to the US meat industry? How many to datacenters?

I would argue that you care a great deal more about one than the other. Which, going back to my original point, why is that 1% more important than the remaining 99% (or specifically the 50% that you care so much about)?

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- apotheotic@beehaw.org ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I don’t have evidence on hand, but I have read compelling scholarly articles previously on the matter. Feel free to disregard this discussion point if that’s a dealbreaker.
  
  I would argue that you care a great deal more about one that the other
  
  Your argument would be incorrect, as I have been vegetarian for over 2 decades and vegan for the last 5 years. I’ve just found that trying to sway people online about the meat industry is a fool’s errand, whereas I have had decent success in having constructive conversations about the harms of AI. My meat industry related efforts are focused primarily on face to face interactions.
  
  My stance on AI isn’t based on what’s “trending”, except for the fact that it, as a pretty existential threat in its current trajectory of resource usage, job displacement, and market “growth”, is rapidly starting to infest every aspect of my life. So yes, the trend that AI is following is causing my stance on it to be pertinent to a growing number of conversations.
  
  I’m curious though, what would I have to be doing for you to believe that I’m… I dont know, “allowed”? to talk about AI’s water usage impact?
  
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  - Mordikan@kbin.earth ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    
    I'm curious though, what would I have to be doing for you to believe that I'm... I dont know, "allowed"? to talk about AI's water usage impact?
    
    I would say you are starting to approach an opposing view as treating yours as "wrong thought" when confronted. That is an absolutest method that is only ever used to justify what you think is right and vilify all else. It isn't a matter of what is "allowed". There is no restriction to that. But if you put out an idea or belief that can be deconstructed and proven incorrect/incomplete, then people have the right to speak against it.
    
    There are lots of points you can make that are completely valid and evidentiary by nature, but AI water usage isn't one of them. It has been debunked to point that I would bucket it into the same group that "vaccines cause autism" fit into.
    
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