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that’s absolutely not the case in places like the netherlands and the nordic countries, people dont really give a fuck cus everyone speaks english anyway (unfortunately)

i think the dutch and the scandinavians have hit their head or something cus their languages are so easy to learn but in iceland and finland it’s possible to never get fluent even with a lot of effort, cus the languages are damn hard, so people are understandably more forgiving

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wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
You yourself are saying it’s unfortunate that people mostly speak English in the nordic countries, and yet you argue that it would be xenophobic and wrong to try to incentivize society to use the local languages more?

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- kuiskaaja@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  people don’t “mostly speak english” here, they mostly speak their native language but are also proficient in english.
  
  i’m all for encouraging people to speak local languages but i don’t think basically banning non-fluent speakers from restaurants is the way to go
  
  one of the first steps of learning a language (properly) is using it in simple situations like ordering in a restaurant. how is preventing learners from using the language in any way productive?
  
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  - wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Then what did you mean why you said “unfortunately”? I guess that part through me off.
    
    And look, I’ve done a bit of traveling so I’m definitely grateful for places that welcome foreigners who don’t speak the language. I’m not saying those should go away.
    
    But I’ve also spent enough time in some places to gain a little proficiency, and at that point it would be nice to have a few places to go where I’m expected to use the language. Otherwise people see me struggling and then they default to English. It makes it harder to get the level of immersion necessary to go from intermediate to advanced.
    
    Plus, when I’m really immerses in a culture I like to avoid the touristy spots. I try to go to the places where the local language is used more. If I rely on every local’s English proficiency to get by, I’ll never learn.
    
    And it feels nice to be able to differentiate myself from the average tourist, like “no I’ve actually been living here for months and have gained some basic proficiency in the language.” There’s a difference between going somewhere for a week to hit all the tripadvisor spots, versus going somewhere to immerse in the local culture and try to build a life there. Most places view tourists as a nuisance, and I don’t see why that’s a problem because the level of respect for the local culture tends to be lower among tourists anyway.
    
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    kuiskaaja@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    i meant that it’s unfortunate that natives often don’t care about people not learning the local language
    
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