Comment on Cool Japan đ¸
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠agoIf an American moves to Europe and doesnât attempt to learn the local language, then by a few months to a year in with zero effort people will say theyâre in the wrong for not making an effort to integrate and expecting everyone to speak English for them.
Clearly âAmericans expecting foreigners to speak Englishâ is different from âOther countries expecting Americans to speak the local languageâ from a moral point of view. So why is Japan then lumped in with America as the âLocal people must accept and accommodate foreigners who canât communicate in the local languageâ bucket, when anywhere else itâs âIf youâre traveling there and you didnât even try learning the language, then youâre ignorant and entitled.â?
If an American moves to Europe and doesnât attempt to learn the local language, then by a few months to a year in with zero effort people will say theyâre in the wrong for not making an effort to integrate and expecting everyone to speak English for them.
My American cousin lived and worked in France as an engineer for several years. This is absolutely not true. He did make an effort to learn some French, but it wasnât because of any pressure. He just wanted to.
kuiskaaja@lemmy.ml â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
thatâs absolutely not the case in places like the netherlands and the nordic countries, people dont really give a fuck cus everyone speaks english anyway (unfortunately)
i think the dutch and the scandinavians have hit their head or something cus their languages are so easy to learn but in iceland and finland itâs possible to never get fluent even with a lot of effort, cus the languages are damn hard, so people are understandably more forgiving
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
You yourself are saying itâs unfortunate that people mostly speak English in the nordic countries, and yet you argue that it would be xenophobic and wrong to try to incentivize society to use the local languages more?
kuiskaaja@lemmy.ml â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
people donât âmostly speak englishâ here, they mostly speak their native language but are also proficient in english.
iâm all for encouraging people to speak local languages but i donât think basically banning non-fluent speakers from restaurants is the way to go
one of the first steps of learning a language (properly) is using it in simple situations like ordering in a restaurant. how is preventing learners from using the language in any way productive?
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Then what did you mean why you said âunfortunatelyâ? I guess that part through me off.
And look, Iâve done a bit of traveling so Iâm definitely grateful for places that welcome foreigners who donât speak the language. Iâm not saying those should go away.
But Iâve also spent enough time in some places to gain a little proficiency, and at that point it would be nice to have a few places to go where Iâm expected to use the language. Otherwise people see me struggling and then they default to English. It makes it harder to get the level of immersion necessary to go from intermediate to advanced.
Plus, when Iâm really immerses in a culture I like to avoid the touristy spots. I try to go to the places where the local language is used more. If I rely on every localâs English proficiency to get by, Iâll never learn.
And it feels nice to be able to differentiate myself from the average tourist, like âno Iâve actually been living here for months and have gained some basic proficiency in the language.â Thereâs a difference between going somewhere for a week to hit all the tripadvisor spots, versus going somewhere to immerse in the local culture and try to build a life there. Most places view tourists as a nuisance, and I donât see why thatâs a problem because the level of respect for the local culture tends to be lower among tourists anyway.