Comment on Cool Japan šø
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz āØ2ā© āØmonthsā© agoIf an American moves to Europe and doesnāt attempt to learn the local language, then by a few months to a year in with zero effort people will say theyāre in the wrong for not making an effort to integrate and expecting everyone to speak English for them.
Clearly āAmericans expecting foreigners to speak Englishā is different from āOther countries expecting Americans to speak the local languageā from a moral point of view. So why is Japan then lumped in with America as the āLocal people must accept and accommodate foreigners who canāt communicate in the local languageā bucket, when anywhere else itās āIf youāre traveling there and you didnāt even try learning the language, then youāre ignorant and entitled.ā?
If an American moves to Europe and doesnāt attempt to learn the local language, then by a few months to a year in with zero effort people will say theyāre in the wrong for not making an effort to integrate and expecting everyone to speak English for them.
My American cousin lived and worked in France as an engineer for several years. This is absolutely not true. He did make an effort to learn some French, but it wasnāt because of any pressure. He just wanted to.
kuiskaaja@lemmy.ml āØ1ā© āØmonthā© ago
thatās absolutely not the case in places like the netherlands and the nordic countries, people dont really give a fuck cus everyone speaks english anyway (unfortunately)
i think the dutch and the scandinavians have hit their head or something cus their languages are so easy to learn but in iceland and finland itās possible to never get fluent even with a lot of effort, cus the languages are damn hard, so people are understandably more forgiving
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz āØ1ā© āØmonthā© ago
You yourself are saying itās unfortunate that people mostly speak English in the nordic countries, and yet you argue that it would be xenophobic and wrong to try to incentivize society to use the local languages more?
kuiskaaja@lemmy.ml āØ1ā© āØmonthā© ago
people donāt āmostly speak englishā here, they mostly speak their native language but are also proficient in english.
iām all for encouraging people to speak local languages but i donāt think basically banning non-fluent speakers from restaurants is the way to go
one of the first steps of learning a language (properly) is using it in simple situations like ordering in a restaurant. how is preventing learners from using the language in any way productive?
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz āØ1ā© āØmonthā© ago
Then what did you mean why you said āunfortunatelyā? I guess that part through me off.
And look, Iāve done a bit of traveling so Iām definitely grateful for places that welcome foreigners who donāt speak the language. Iām not saying those should go away.
But Iāve also spent enough time in some places to gain a little proficiency, and at that point it would be nice to have a few places to go where Iām expected to use the language. Otherwise people see me struggling and then they default to English. It makes it harder to get the level of immersion necessary to go from intermediate to advanced.
Plus, when Iām really immerses in a culture I like to avoid the touristy spots. I try to go to the places where the local language is used more. If I rely on every localās English proficiency to get by, Iāll never learn.
And it feels nice to be able to differentiate myself from the average tourist, like āno Iāve actually been living here for months and have gained some basic proficiency in the language.ā Thereās a difference between going somewhere for a week to hit all the tripadvisor spots, versus going somewhere to immerse in the local culture and try to build a life there. Most places view tourists as a nuisance, and I donāt see why thatās a problem because the level of respect for the local culture tends to be lower among tourists anyway.