Neither because I don’t know which leg you’re standing on. You bounce back and forth between accusations and judgements with emotionally driven but contradictory replies.
You’re keen on destroying a common cause in favor of some unrelated shit because mUh mOrElS.
You’re just as morally bankrupt as that which you criticize.
At one point you clap back that my morality is a hindrance, later I’m as morally bankrupt as is the thing I criticize, which is the thing you support. Which is it? My morals or lack thereof?
I’m tempted to believe that you didn’t mean to damn what I’m criticizing while you were damning me, but maybe you did, maybe it slipped out, or maybe it’s just a poor choice of words. Morality isn’t a universal constant, it’s shaped by people because it’s a human invention. White Christian nationalism is built on the idea of morality as a God-given baseline, by their values those who exercise their free will and reject that are morally bankrupt. People are free to adopt whatever morals they want and hold themselves to it, but that doesn’t allow them to take actions that negatively affect how others choose to live or hinder their self-actualization.
I know you’re going to stop being a destructive asshole.
But didn’t you also accuse me of sounding like a sociopath? Believing you “know” what a person is going to do is a mistake. You can develop a reasonable belief about what another person will probably do in given situation based off their past actions and what they tell you about their beliefs. But all humans can lie, all can deceive, all can panic, pure altruism is rare. Most will default to protecting themselves and their tribe in a worst case scenario; that’s trap of populism. It creates tribes but if the demagogue begins to crack, abuse their power, declines morally, or fails to deliver on promises, the tribe would rather sail into annihilation than risk replacing their captain because to do so would admit they’ve been played, compromised their own integrity, and might result in a captain that alters course.
Allyship is not friendship. I stated clearly in an earlier response that there’s plenty of leftists I recognize as allies in the fight that is in front of us, but it doesn’t mean I am your friend, believe you’re mine, nor that the process of deconstructing and building a new America is going to be some peachy keen utopian world healing event. Libertarians are a great example of this. They have been perfectly content to support Trumpism when they thought it would be treading on everyone else but themselves despite being warned “it doesn’t care enough about you as an individual to ensure your life isn’t destroyed as a byproduct”. Now they are beginning to trickle to the left’s doorstep looking for allies. Trusting them is situational. I’d trust one in a firefight against the Feds, but I wouldn’t trust one to be my ally long-term unless I saw some real personal growth along the way. They’ll go right back to “I got mine, fuck you” as soon as the threat to themselves is lifted and abandon the cause to hoard what they can. The French Resistance and Italian Partisans were coalitions of leftists and libertarians united to fight fascism. They managed to work together on common ground and a few pillars of shared morality, but they weren’t “friends” and didn’t all agree on the course forward once the Third Reich was consigned to history. You take what you can get when you can get it but it doesn’t mean you have to like it.
We self-govern through consensus built upon arguments, debates, and demands for personal accountability, not through suppressing our values and morals to adopt ideology. Leaders serve at the will of the people, not because they make the best speeches or promises, and while we should all demand a high standard of personal accountability out of each other, people who offer themselves as leaders should subject themselves to an even greater degree of self-awareness.
Go back to your cave.
Pull your head out of your ass. A decade of cheap comebacks telling MAGAts to “go back to wherever” didn’t do shit because people don’t live in isolation. We all live in society, we all participate in it. Wishing your opponents would be quite and disappear is a zero effort attitude and the longer you keep telling strangers on the internet to “go away”, the longer they have to spend recognizing you aren’t actually going to do anything to stop them while they build movements with real people and action. The Proud Boys became the J6ers became ICE while leftists built live stream followings. If you want to silence someone’s rhetoric and their ability to act on their beliefs, telling them to “go away” doesn’t make them go away. You have to draw the line of “it ends here” and accept the confrontation.
No. I get that it’s easier in the digital age to watch to a live stream and parrot the opinions you’ve adopted as if they’re your own, but if you want to have a stake in this movement and a say in what comes next you’re going to need to learn to read, debate, and engage. If you aren’t going to put in the effort here I have no reason to believe you’ll put in the effort when it actually matters.
How about you write less fluff and get to the point? Three sentence summary, go. Whatever you say can’t possibly be that important that I need your dissertation.
backalleycoyote@lemmy.today 10 hours ago
Neither because I don’t know which leg you’re standing on. You bounce back and forth between accusations and judgements with emotionally driven but contradictory replies.
At one point you clap back that my morality is a hindrance, later I’m as morally bankrupt as is the thing I criticize, which is the thing you support. Which is it? My morals or lack thereof?
I’m tempted to believe that you didn’t mean to damn what I’m criticizing while you were damning me, but maybe you did, maybe it slipped out, or maybe it’s just a poor choice of words. Morality isn’t a universal constant, it’s shaped by people because it’s a human invention. White Christian nationalism is built on the idea of morality as a God-given baseline, by their values those who exercise their free will and reject that are morally bankrupt. People are free to adopt whatever morals they want and hold themselves to it, but that doesn’t allow them to take actions that negatively affect how others choose to live or hinder their self-actualization.
But didn’t you also accuse me of sounding like a sociopath? Believing you “know” what a person is going to do is a mistake. You can develop a reasonable belief about what another person will probably do in given situation based off their past actions and what they tell you about their beliefs. But all humans can lie, all can deceive, all can panic, pure altruism is rare. Most will default to protecting themselves and their tribe in a worst case scenario; that’s trap of populism. It creates tribes but if the demagogue begins to crack, abuse their power, declines morally, or fails to deliver on promises, the tribe would rather sail into annihilation than risk replacing their captain because to do so would admit they’ve been played, compromised their own integrity, and might result in a captain that alters course.
Allyship is not friendship. I stated clearly in an earlier response that there’s plenty of leftists I recognize as allies in the fight that is in front of us, but it doesn’t mean I am your friend, believe you’re mine, nor that the process of deconstructing and building a new America is going to be some peachy keen utopian world healing event. Libertarians are a great example of this. They have been perfectly content to support Trumpism when they thought it would be treading on everyone else but themselves despite being warned “it doesn’t care enough about you as an individual to ensure your life isn’t destroyed as a byproduct”. Now they are beginning to trickle to the left’s doorstep looking for allies. Trusting them is situational. I’d trust one in a firefight against the Feds, but I wouldn’t trust one to be my ally long-term unless I saw some real personal growth along the way. They’ll go right back to “I got mine, fuck you” as soon as the threat to themselves is lifted and abandon the cause to hoard what they can. The French Resistance and Italian Partisans were coalitions of leftists and libertarians united to fight fascism. They managed to work together on common ground and a few pillars of shared morality, but they weren’t “friends” and didn’t all agree on the course forward once the Third Reich was consigned to history. You take what you can get when you can get it but it doesn’t mean you have to like it.
We self-govern through consensus built upon arguments, debates, and demands for personal accountability, not through suppressing our values and morals to adopt ideology. Leaders serve at the will of the people, not because they make the best speeches or promises, and while we should all demand a high standard of personal accountability out of each other, people who offer themselves as leaders should subject themselves to an even greater degree of self-awareness.
Pull your head out of your ass. A decade of cheap comebacks telling MAGAts to “go back to wherever” didn’t do shit because people don’t live in isolation. We all live in society, we all participate in it. Wishing your opponents would be quite and disappear is a zero effort attitude and the longer you keep telling strangers on the internet to “go away”, the longer they have to spend recognizing you aren’t actually going to do anything to stop them while they build movements with real people and action. The Proud Boys became the J6ers became ICE while leftists built live stream followings. If you want to silence someone’s rhetoric and their ability to act on their beliefs, telling them to “go away” doesn’t make them go away. You have to draw the line of “it ends here” and accept the confrontation.
Lemminary@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
You don’t really expect me to read all that, do you? Can I get a tldr?
backalleycoyote@lemmy.today 5 hours ago
No. I get that it’s easier in the digital age to watch to a live stream and parrot the opinions you’ve adopted as if they’re your own, but if you want to have a stake in this movement and a say in what comes next you’re going to need to learn to read, debate, and engage. If you aren’t going to put in the effort here I have no reason to believe you’ll put in the effort when it actually matters.
Lemminary@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
How about you write less fluff and get to the point? Three sentence summary, go. Whatever you say can’t possibly be that important that I need your dissertation.