Comment on The Jebus Said So.

• kromem@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  He was almost certainly not fictional.

  Fictional constructs don’t end up having bitterly opposed factions splintering off within decades of their supposed death, but that’s an extremely common feature of nearly every cult organized around a historical central figure.

  The specific depiction of Jesus canonized likely has many fictional elements, but the idea that there was no historical figure in the first place is pretty ludicrous.

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  • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    He is almost certainly is fictional. I don’t see at all why you think it matters what people did after his supposed existence. Also not sure where you are getting bitterly opposed. Paul was sending money to the Church of Jerusalem. He argued but you don’t give free money to people you bitterly oppose. You also don’t write a letter saying how the leaders were good people. The fighting really started as Christianity moved into power and little spats made a difference. Plus you know we have no evidence that Buddhism had that fighting after Siddharth death and the Mormons didn’t break out into civil war after Smith died. Scientologists are also doing fine.

    Every detail of his supposed life was pulled from literature available and was to generate a specific result. We can also see where they were taking “known” facts at the time and misrepresenting them to try to get what they want.

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    • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Jebus never condemned Hummus. Look it up the Bibble. It’s not there.

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    • kromem@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. I think that I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles.

      • 2 Cor 11:4-5

      Corinth then later on full on deposed Rome’s appointees which led to the letter from the bishop of Rome, 1 Clement that’s almost entirely devoted to trying to damage control the schism.

      And why not say (as some people slander us by saying that we say), “Let us do evil so that good may come”? Their judgment is deserved!

      • Romans 3:8

      I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another gospel, but there are some who are confusing you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel[a] from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that one be accursed! As we have said before, so now I repeat, if anyone proclaims to you a gospel contrary to what you received, let that one be accursed!

      • Galatians 1:6-9

      You can even see some of the specific concepts that there was a schism about, such as whether there was an over-realized eschatology:

      As to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we beg you, brothers and sisters, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as though from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord is already here.

      • 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 (likely a bit later than Paul)

      Avoid profane chatter, for it will lead people into more and more impiety, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth, saying resurrection has already occurred. They are upsetting the faith of some.

      • 2 Timothy 2:16-18

      So I’m not sure where you get the notion there was one big happy family of Christian thought in Paul’s time and the later 1st century CE when literally the earliest records of Christianity we have are so concerned with competing traditions and ideas. You may be mistaking the survivorship bias of cannonical Christianity eradicating most competing thought later on for a picture of unity (as that’s what they try to project) which is why a closer read is warranted.

      Plus you know we have no evidence that Buddhism had that fighting after Siddharth death

      It had that fighting even before Siddhartha’s death when his brother in law Devadatta broke away to form his own group.

      Mormons didn’t break out into civil war after Smith died.

      You might want to read up on the succession crisis

      Scientologists are also doing fine.

      You might want to look into the Free Zone schisms from Scientology near and after L Ron’s death.

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      • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Again. Having small disagreements a generation after the fake death of Jesus doesn’t prove that Jesus existed. You are goalpost moving now. You went from bitterly opposed to having literal anything but perfect harmony.

        Now do you have anything better than Paul sounded a bit peeved in a letter and your claim with no evidence whatsoever that religious shishms are required for unknown reasons? Got to give you credit this is by far the worst argument I have heard for your Messiah existing. Because people argued he couldn’t be real. I am glad no one ever argues about fiction and toxic fanbases don’t exist.

        Oh and for the record he didn’t write Timothy. I am sure a biblical scholar such as yourself knew that already.

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  • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Source? /s

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