Are you one of those people that defend rapists by saying “innocent until proven guilty”?
I was with you until this line popped up out of nowhere. Like, wtf. Yes, that’s the basis of our fucking justice system.
I didn’t draw any line. But if you think that physical violence, or an accident (even if caused by stupidity or whatever else) is as bad as an act that is designed to destroy someone completely, then you are part of the problem.
Are you one of those people that defend rapists by saying “innocent until proven guilty”?
AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Solumbran@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
But you are not the justice system, you are an individual.
Are you defending Trump every time someone says he’s a rapist? If a cop kills a black guy out of racism, but is found innocent by the court, do you defend him? What about DSK in Europe, that raped a maid for no reason, but wasn’t found guilty because he had a lot of money and influence, yet bribed her after the trial with a huge amount of money so that she doesn’t appeal? What about Matzneff in France, who gets rewards for books where he explains in details how he raped a lot of kids and loved it, do you defend him? All these people are innocent, in the view of the justice system.
If you say no to those, then where do you draw the line? Where is the point where suddenly, the justice system becomes your guide?
Innocent until proven guilty is a huge basis of the justice system, yes. But you supporting victims that declare they have been raped, whether or not the perpetrator has been judged and condemned, is not going to change the justice system.
AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
There’s a big stretch between claiming on a case by case basis that justice has been miscarried, and making a flat out statement that all accused rapists are guilty, which is what your statement would mean.
Solumbran@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Justice is generally not carried at all for rape accusations, cases are not even recorded and cops tell victims “I would have done the same, shut up slut”.
I am also not saying that all accused rapists are guilty, but that you should believe the victims unless you have strong evidence of the opposite. Just like you should believe victims of discriminations that explain it to you, instead of saying “I don’t see it so it doesn’t exist”. The concept is the same, you side with the side that is being treated unfairly, not the opposite.
How many cases of rape accusations do you know, that seem fake, compared to how many seem justified, and how many of those end up with the perpetrator condemned (or even judged)?
Believing victims doesn’t bring anything bad, it just gives you a mindset that allows you to see further than the rape culture that society is drowned in. And when someone is accused by 20 people of rape, instead of immediately thinking “these 20 people are greedy liars that are just preying on this poor, innocent celebrity”, you start wondering how you can get 20 people to go through the humiliation of declaring themselves victims of rape, which is seen as shameful (for some reason), without having done anything wrong.
And also, ask women (not only, but statistically it’s a sad fact) around you if they’ve ever been assaulted, raped, or whatnot. Even though most probably wouldn’t want to tell you, statistically I guarantee that a bunch of them went through something like that and never talked about it. Your reaction is typically why, they know that without hard proof (which generally doesn’t exist) people will immediately believe the assaulter instead. And according to your stance, if your mother tells you she’s been assaulted 30 years ago, your answer would be “Do you have proof? Why have you waited for so long? Is the perpetrator famous?”. But of course you wouldn’t react like that, because once it’s someone that you know and respect (I mean, I don’t know your relationship with your mother), you realize how hard it is for them to go through that, and that even talking about it is a big sacrifice.
So basically: if you don’t believe the victims by default, then you believe the rapists by default. And society already defends the rapists. So yeah, I’m not going to wait for a court to give their judgement to have an opinion, and without any strong evidence that the victim would be lying (which basically never happens), I’m going to side with them.
6_Electrons@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It would be a terrifying world to live in if it was guilty into proven innocent
Solumbran@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It would be terrifying to be in a world where opinions need to be backed up by a court of law, and yet here we are.
If you don’t believe victims of rape, you’re on the side of the rapists, and I’ll tell you fuck you for that.
And the fact that you had to intervene to say “no but it’s good to defend rapists” says a lot about what your opinion on the matter is.
6_Electrons@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You continue to say some of the craziest things I’ve heard in a long time.
Please continue! What else you got locked up in that dome you’ve been wanting to let loose??
Solumbran@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Considering people innocent until proven guilty matters for the justice system. An individual’s opinion are not bound to this.
Rape in particular sees an extreme minority of perpetrators being condemned. If you decide to then believe the legal conclusion, rather than the words of the victims, you are siding with an unfair system that protects rapists.
But sure, with your logic you shouldn’t call a guy like Trump a rapist because you know, he hasn’t been proven guilty. Way to go.