Do you believe that it’s impossible to use the word “female” without it being sexist?
Because this is some take I’ve seen floating around and it seems like a a serious misunderstanding of the “incels call women females and femoids” dynamic, and for the sake of not getting annoyed by so much stuff you see online it would be a good idea to course correct
with the current format of the meme no combination of words exists for them to compare and contrast humans to animals, other than “females.”
Thats… Incredibly superficial and shows zero cultural awareness.
One half of the meme is an abortion rights campaign phrase, which is a badly needed campaign because women don’t have that right in many places around the world. And it’s majorly opposed by conservative men. Those same men also use the term “females” to refer to women in a derogatory way.
only when you get to the end of the text do you realise it exists for 1 messaging purpose
This is ALSO a very common method for that exact same group to pretend their misogynist messaging is covered up when pointed out. They go “it’s not about dehumanizing women, it’s about veganism bro!” Or “that’s not the point, you’re digging too deep, keep being triggered lol”.
This is a common method to dogwhistle their in-group.
they could have, I suppose, opened with a woman saying “I’m sure glad I’m not artificially inseminated every nine months so milk can be harvested from my body!” Then cut to a picture of a cow in the second panel. It’s essentially the same thing.
It’s the same surface level message. But using their misogynist worldview to carry the surface level message ALSO reinforces that worldview.
The more you also support that framework, the more the framework is normalized. The more the framework is normalized, the easier it becomes to dehumanize and degrade women.
And arguing about it in bad faith, which they have to, is also what happens a lot. Because when someone points out a dogwhistle, it becomes less effective.
Everything is malformed messaging to increase it’s viral-spread quality.
Exactly. But the viral load isn’t on the surface. Using a framework to convey normal information supports that framework. The framework is the point, the surface information is a cover.
And using the surface info that appeals to “the enemy” is doubly effective, because it makes your enemy look deranged, scoring you a double win.
One half of the meme is an abortion rights campaign phrase, which is a badly needed campaign because women don’t have that right in many places around the world. And it’s majorly opposed by conservative men. Those same men also use the term “females” to refer to women in a derogatory way.
response to this
The thing about the abortion slogan, ‘my body my choice’ - it’s so powerful because after saying it, it is then used to compare with a multitude of other things; body modification, assault, how people engage with sex and choose their sexual partners. I therefore think the principle came before the use in abortion access messaging.
> And it’s majorly opposed by conservative men
Okay, i can definiteky see how this has the format of ome of those “take down discredit the initial argument by either taking it to the absurd or highlighting an inherent contradiction in society.” format.
But first we have to consider: are many conservatives vegan? This is definitely advocating a vegan, environmentalist, or degrowth agenda.
[edit to add: use of word “carnist” and cross post to vrgan community on the solarpunk instance indicates this isn’t conservative]
And after that - if the meme exists to discredit the pro choice attitude, do you feel like it has been sucessfully discredited? The principle hasn’t, of course, but it does highlight cognitive disonance.
So with this context, can you see that the meme isn’t actually anti-pro-choice, but rather believes it should be applied to animals? That’s the long and short of the post in my opinion.
> Those same men also use the term “females” to refer to women in a derogatory way.
Too general i think; i know that some people do this, some “very online people”
only when you get to the end of the text do you realise it exists for 1 messaging purpose
This is ALSO a very common method for that exact same group to pretend their misogynist messaging is covered up when pointed out. They go “it’s not about dehumanizing women, it’s about veganism bro!” Or “that’s not the point, you’re digging too deep, keep being triggered lol”.
This is a common method to dogwhistle their in-group.
Do we have such people on lemmy? I see this as a staunchly politically-gatekept community, this Social Medium, and i think conservatives and misogynists like to post on twitter instead. That said, i guess there’s mastodon which is more politically diverse.
they could have, I suppose, opened with a woman saying “I’m sure glad I’m not artificially inseminated every nine months so milk can be harvested from my body!” Then cut to a picture of a cow in the second panel. It’s essentially the same thing.
It’s the same surface level message. But using their misogynist worldview to carry the surface level message ALSO reinforces that worldview
Biological men can’t get pregnant and don’t usually produce milk. That’s why it has to be a woman in the meme.
I’ll pre-emptively say that the Meme also isn’t suggesting women in particular are too ignorant to pay attention to animal rights issues, or something. Just in case you’re intending to posit that. It’s just that humans in general don’t know about these farming practices.
The more you also support that framework, the more the framework is normalized. The more the framework is normalized, the easier it becomes to dehumanize and degrade women
Is your problem with the meme the fact that a woman appears to be the one being criticised? The reader is being criticised (for inaction/unawareness) and is supposed to relate to the woman, as another human. Reader is supposed to be apalled to learn that cows are routinely inseminated.
And if by framework you mean memes, they’re plenty normalised. Not much i can do to change that.
Well put but I wouldn’t generalize that vegans see animal lives as equal. That’s a wide spread misconception. I know some do. But it’s about avoidabilty. I would kill an animal with my bare fucking hands to save a fellow human life if there is no other way. You don’t have to think of animals as equal to realise all of this fucked up and no living beeing capeable of feeling emotions deserves to be treated like that.
FinjaminPoach@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Do you believe that it’s impossible to use the word “female” without it being sexist?
Because this is some take I’ve seen floating around and it seems like a a serious misunderstanding of the “incels call women females and femoids” dynamic, and for the sake of not getting annoyed by so much stuff you see online it would be a good idea to course correct
Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Thats… Incredibly superficial and shows zero cultural awareness.
One half of the meme is an abortion rights campaign phrase, which is a badly needed campaign because women don’t have that right in many places around the world. And it’s majorly opposed by conservative men. Those same men also use the term “females” to refer to women in a derogatory way.
This is ALSO a very common method for that exact same group to pretend their misogynist messaging is covered up when pointed out. They go “it’s not about dehumanizing women, it’s about veganism bro!” Or “that’s not the point, you’re digging too deep, keep being triggered lol”.
This is a common method to dogwhistle their in-group.
It’s the same surface level message. But using their misogynist worldview to carry the surface level message ALSO reinforces that worldview.
The more you also support that framework, the more the framework is normalized. The more the framework is normalized, the easier it becomes to dehumanize and degrade women.
And arguing about it in bad faith, which they have to, is also what happens a lot. Because when someone points out a dogwhistle, it becomes less effective.
Exactly. But the viral load isn’t on the surface. Using a framework to convey normal information supports that framework. The framework is the point, the surface information is a cover.
And using the surface info that appeals to “the enemy” is doubly effective, because it makes your enemy look deranged, scoring you a double win.
FinjaminPoach@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
response to this
The thing about the abortion slogan, ‘my body my choice’ - it’s so powerful because after saying it, it is then used to compare with a multitude of other things; body modification, assault, how people engage with sex and choose their sexual partners. I therefore think the principle came before the use in abortion access messaging. > And it’s majorly opposed by conservative men Okay, i can definiteky see how this has the format of ome of those “
take downdiscredit the initial argument by either taking it to the absurd or highlighting an inherent contradiction in society.” format. But first we have to consider: are many conservatives vegan? This is definitely advocating a vegan, environmentalist, or degrowth agenda. [edit to add: use of word “carnist” and cross post to vrgan community on the solarpunk instance indicates this isn’t conservative] And after that - if the meme exists to discredit the pro choice attitude, do you feel like it has been sucessfully discredited? The principle hasn’t, of course, but it does highlight cognitive disonance. So with this context, can you see that the meme isn’t actually anti-pro-choice, but rather believes it should be applied to animals? That’s the long and short of the post in my opinion. > Those same men also use the term “females” to refer to women in a derogatory way. Too general i think; i know that some people do this, some “very online people”Do we have such people on lemmy? I see this as a staunchly politically-gatekept community, this Social Medium, and i think conservatives and misogynists like to post on twitter instead. That said, i guess there’s mastodon which is more politically diverse.
Biological men can’t get pregnant and don’t usually produce milk. That’s why it has to be a woman in the meme.
I’ll pre-emptively say that the Meme also isn’t suggesting women in particular are too ignorant to pay attention to animal rights issues, or something. Just in case you’re intending to posit that. It’s just that humans in general don’t know about these farming practices.
Is your problem with the meme the fact that a woman appears to be the one being criticised? The reader is being criticised (for inaction/unawareness) and is supposed to relate to the woman, as another human. Reader is supposed to be apalled to learn that cows are routinely inseminated.
And if by framework you mean memes, they’re plenty normalised. Not much i can do to change that.
JFLennson@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
Well put but I wouldn’t generalize that vegans see animal lives as equal. That’s a wide spread misconception. I know some do. But it’s about avoidabilty. I would kill an animal with my bare fucking hands to save a fellow human life if there is no other way. You don’t have to think of animals as equal to realise all of this fucked up and no living beeing capeable of feeling emotions deserves to be treated like that.