Comment on Someone made it a meme, it's got to be true.

Skullgrid@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

• cuchi@startrek.website ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  I don’t know, DS9 is not that edgy and when there is extremist actions they are complained for not follow the starfleet tradition or being unethicals.

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  • Skullgrid@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    In the aftermath, Cardassian and Human colonists are resettled on the poisoned colonies, exchanging their former homes. Back on DS9, Eddington is turned over to Odo, and Dax has Sisko confess that he didn’t clear his plot to poison the Maquis colonies with Starfleet. Dax remarks that undertaking that action was a big gamble and Sisko responds that that is what it takes to be a good villain. “You know, sometimes I like it when the bad guy wins,” Dax tells Sisko as they walk away from the airlock.

    …fandom.com/…/For_the_Uniform_(episode)

    It doesn’t make it seem like there was any comeuppance for , IDK, using weapons of mass destruction on civillians and hoping their evacuation within an hour doesn’t fail.

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• remotelove@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Most of TNG painted a picture of a perfect utopian Starfleet and how humans had grown up, like you say . (Obviously, humanity is never perfect but the messaging is fairly clear: They try.)

  I can chime in more about VOY and ENT though…

  VOY is my favorite and also when you start to see a little more of humanity in Starfleet. We learned a few things like: The Prime Directive/Temporal Prime Directives were always just suggestions, murder could actually be justified, you will never get promoted past ensign if you play the clarinet and chemical addiction is still a key driver in human decisions and behavior.

  ENT is just the human transition out of a military focused race to a race focused on exploration. (I am not sure why Archer always seems to have serious case of constipation, but it is what it is.)

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• UltraMagnus@startrek.website ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  I think DS9 works if you consider it more as a “show about star trek” rather than just as “star trek”. E.g., it’s a good deconstruction of what is “necessary” for a utopia, or for looking at the limits of how a utopia van operate in practice.

  DS9’s characters and their dynamics are my favorite amongst any star trek show, but I think it’s fair to say that the show does not stick to the core world building “pillars” of star trek. However, I think it would be unfair to dismiss it as simply edgy for the sake of edginess.

  (Similar to KOTOR and star wars - really cool how the game turns the idea of the Force on its head, but definitely not in line with George Lucas’ vision. I would still want to see a movie about this anyways)

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  • Skullgrid@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    you make a salient point. I don’t know if I’m inclined to agree, but it’s a good point.

    Similar to KOTOR and star wars - really cool how the game turns the idea of the Force on its head, but definitely not in line with George Lucas’ vision.

    Not sure I follow. I loved KOTOR2 (my favourite piece of star wars)

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    • UltraMagnus@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      I think the main difference between original trilogy and KOTOR series would be whether or not the Force has a will - original series treats the Force extremely closely to the concept of Tao (Lucas being a methodist buddhist), without any particular ‘agenda’

      KOTOR2, especially Kreia, treats the Force more sapiently, and as something that can be killed - which seems to contradict Obi-Wan’s original description of it in a New Hope (if the Force is created by living things and binds the universe together, then surely you could only “destroy” the force if the universe and living things in it are gone).

      OTOH, you could easily say that Kreia is unreliable, which would make this interpretation simply Kreia’s perspective, rather than KOTOR2 trying to adjust canon. Or you could also say that Obi-Wan is simplifying things greatly since he doesn’t have much time, and he isn’t exactly truthful about other things, either. (And it’s been a few years since I played the KOTOR games so I could be misremembering)

      It’s also fair to say that George Lucas doesn’t always follow George Lucas’ original vision… (i.e., midichlorians, which certainly depart from original buddhist inspirations). Personally, taking the “original vision” and cleaving to whatever was made first isn’t important to me, so long as you can tell a good story I don’t mind what retcons/worldbuilding changes happen.

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      • Skullgrid@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        OTOH, you could easily say that Kreia is unreliable, which would make this interpretation simply Kreia’s perspective, rather than KOTOR2 trying to adjust canon.

        this seems to make more sense to me. I just took her ramblings as “bad guy shit” and forgot since I played it like over a decade ago.

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• valar@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Nailed it

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  • Skullgrid@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Some of the most fun trek is DS9’s “on station, at Quark’s” episodes/moments. (I have not seen anything beyond 2 eps of lower decks, or SNW)

    TNG is great serious Trek. It’s quite straight up though.

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    • valar@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Still my favorite, partially for nostalgia since I watched it as a kid, but kind of like how you described, it’s the one with the most optimistic/inspiring picture of the future

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