Comment on đ Octopus is Octopus đ
antonim@lemmy.world â¨1⊠â¨day⊠agoThe whole idea of etymology is that you can figure out what a word means from its roots.
That was the idea in ancient Greece when the name of the endavour/field was created (etymon = âtrueâ). In the 19th century when linguistics became a serious science it was effectively becoming abandoned, and quite clearly criticised by 20th century linguists. Wordsâ meanings and forms shift inevitably, theyâve always been shifting, and trying to pick one single stage of this process as the right one is basically like saying that the earth is flat because from any individual vantage point it looks flat to you.
If you throw all that out, you give up the scaffolding that makes words make any sense.
No, you donât. 99% of people donât know the etymology of 99% of the words they use. Not even linguists have definitive answers for the etymology of words such as âboyâ and âdogâ. Wordsâ meanings are actually established by usage, by tradition as itâs handed down to us, with some leeway in how we accept and modify the tradition. (These mechanisms are many and affect various levels of language.) Note that cultures that donât have scientific etymology still have perfectly functional languages.
It seems like the argument for descriptivism is âletâs not be elitist when people become less competent with the rules of a languageâ
Thatâs one of the arguments, but as you can see I donât think itâs crucial.
I suspect there is also a body of professional linguists who oppose your point for the same reasons.
There are some professional linguists who are active as prescriptivists. Their number varies depending on the country, in Anglophone countries their number is miniscule. In countries with a more pronounced prescriptivist tradition (as in mine, Iâm from Croatia) their number declines through time as academia accepts and integrates modern linguistic theories, and the remaining prescriptivistsâ positions soften. And I canât help but notice that many of the current prescriptivists are shoddy linguists and politically motivated.
The prescriptivists are actually quite thin on the justifications for their approach. They wonât theoretically or empirically defend prescriptivism, arguments for it amount to vague and unscientific claims of a need for order and clarity in language (which exist regardless of prescriptivist intervention), and such stuff. But even they usually donât dare to go so far as to claim etymology is the source of correct meanings, because they know that holding such a position would immediately lead into absurdity and extremism. Leaf through an etymological dictionary and try to stick to the oldest meaning described there. Youâll quickly realise that the source of correct meanings canât be the words and forms from 500, 1000, or 4000 years ago.
A book recommendation, if youâre interested: L. Bauer and P. Trudgill, Language Myths.
dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works â¨1⊠â¨day⊠ago
Iâll add the book to my list.
I am not suggesting by the way that words should never change in meaning. Rather, I donât think that the default mode shouldnât be âah well whatever, letâs just add a new colloquial definitionâ. The dictionary can chase language, but maybe it shouldnât go at exactly the same pace that people say things on tik tok.
I came across a word I had never seen before this week in a book Iâm reading (âschismogenesisâ which is apparently a common word in anthropology, but not for engineering) and I immediately had a working definition. This is the reward for learning to me. I have another friend who did similar schooling and he is of the opinion that knowing â$5 wordsâ is stupid and is reading the same book as part of our book club. I canât imagine what it must be like for him to read a book and constantly feel like all youâre getting is the gist. The dumbing down of language eliminates nuance because the real depth doesnât come at the 4th grade reading level it feels like descriptivism wants to sink to.
I donât like flattening out language to meet the least common denominator.