Comment on Lemmy.jpeg

• Cowbee@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Zenz’ work has been thoroughly discredited, yet is supported by western media for its utility in fearmongering. An example is lying about 8.7% of new IUDs as 80%, to back up claims of “forced sterilization,” from this chart:

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  Zenz is a professional propagandist, known for manipulating or falsely representing data, and outright fabricating data to suit his needs. The US Empire spends billions on discrediting China through any means they can. Trusting Zenz and data that comes exclusively from Zenz is not a reliable measure. Further, the Arab League visited China, and found no evidence backing claims of genocide.

  Instead of accusing others of the equivalent to creationism, why not instead question the actual christofascist you seem to have absolute faith in providing totally real evidence? Zenz claims he is on a mission from God to punish China. Instead, why not read the UN report as well as (especially) China’s response to it, which eclipses it in size and detail.These are the most relevant accusations and responses without delving into straight up fantasy like Adrian Zenz.

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  • dreamy@quokk.au ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    The christofascist on a mission from God to punish China was thoroughly discredited by none other than…
    ObBY7lGIwpwszdg.png
    Yeah. That’s who I trust. Maybe check your own sources before disparaging others’.

    An example is lying about 8.7% of new IUDs as 80%, to back up claims of “forced sterilization,” from this chart…

    Search engines exist, you know that right?:
    5QN4fu2Pq1lscio.png
    https://adrianzenz.medium.com/a-response-to-the-report-compiled-by-lin-fangfei-associate-professor-at-xinjiang-university-bdad4bbb97f9

    Trusting Zenz and data that comes exclusively from Zenz is not a reliable measure. Instead of accusing others of the equivalent to creationism, why not instead question the actual christofascist you seem to have absolute faith in providing totally real evidence?

    Tell me, where have I shown absolute faith in anybody in this thread? You keep talking about how Zenz is a far-right asshole. Do you not realize that Zenz is not the only person researching this?

    If you want to cite arguments from the files you linked feel welcome to do so. But I’m not going to read 130 pages of China sucking itself off, nor am I going to read the 40 page UN report (at least right now) to debunk dumbfuck trolls on Lemmy.

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    • Cowbee@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Your source “debunking” the Grayzone is RationalWiki, which is a right-wing misinformation justification wiki. Note how none of the arguments presented by the Grayzone against Zenz are tackled, just how the Grayzone reports.

      Further, again, Zenz is misrepresenting the data. The only source on him not misrepresenting the data is himself. You further don’t actually tackle how he is misrepresenting the data, you’re just misrepresenting how Xinjiang now has higher access to birth control as “forced sterilization,” a claim that has no backing beyond Zenz’ own words.

      Yes, Zenz isn’t the only one researching this! People like the Arab League went to Xinjiang and found no evidence of genocide. Instead, the groups that push the genocide narrative all circle back to Zenz, then reference each other. In this way, the narrative of genocide appears to have more legitimacy, despite all linking back to shoddy claims by an admitted professional propagandist.

      I find it telling that you’ll only listen to a christofascist, not the UN, and not the PRC’s official response and evidence. It’s the christofascists that deflect from Palestinian genocide that you trust completely, not hard evidence nor even the most official allegations by the UN. Truth doesn’t seem to matter to you, what matters is that christofascist propagandists are trusted.

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      • dreamy@quokk.au ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        The reality reversal is fucking crazy. RationalWiki is the right-wing misinformation wiki now?
        AyxTxp38XZmkyAu.png

        Note how none of the arguments presented by the Grayzone against Zenz are tackled, just how the Grayzone reports.

        A lot of their arguments are debunked here instead.

        Yes, Zenz isn’t the only one researching this! People like the Arab League went to Xinjiang and found no evidence of genocide. Instead, the groups that push the genocide narrative all circle back to Zenz, then reference each other. In this way, the narrative of genocide appears to have more legitimacy, despite all linking back to shoddy claims by an admitted professional propagandist.

        Have any sources for that?

        I find it telling that you’ll only listen to a christofascist, not the UN, and not the PRC’s official response and evidence. It’s the christofascists that deflect from Palestinian genocide that you trust completely, not hard evidence nor even the most official allegations by the UN. Truth doesn’t seem to matter to you, what matters is that christofascist propagandists are trusted. This is Iraq’s supposed WMD and South Africa’s supposed “White Genocide” all over again.

        I literally said, if you want to argue with the information that is present in those in total 180 page documents feel free to do so. But I find it telling that you’ll ignore the stuff I say in order to defend daddy Xi at all costs instead. You’re actually a fucking joke.

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• Riverside@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  His “research” consists of conflating a reeducation campaign in the context of ISIS-related terrorism with genocide through mistranslation, cherrypicking and bad faith, and the argument is “the birthrates dropped so it’s genocide”. Birthrates dropped because Uyghur used to be exempt from the single-child policy (as all minority ethnicities in China) and when Xinjiang started developing at fast pace in the past decades, birthrates dropped dramatically.

  If you really think a CIA asset cannot take public documents in Chinese and misinterpret and twist them enough with the purpose of manufacturing antichinese propaganda, idk what to tell you.

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  • dreamy@quokk.au ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    And how did the birthrates drop? That’s something to omit. But don’t worry, I’ll tell you:

    Leaked data obtained and corroborated by the AP showed that of 484 camp detainees listed in Karakax county in Xinjiang, 149 were there for having too many children - the most common reason for holding them. Time in a camp — what the government calls “education and training” — for parents with too many children is written policy in at least three counties, notices found by Zenz confirmed.

    In 2017, the Xinjiang government also tripled the already hefty fines for violating family planning laws for even the poorest residents — to at least three times the annual disposable income of the county. While fines also apply to Han Chinese, only minorities are sent to the detention camps if they cannot pay, according to interviews and data. Government reports show the counties collect millions of dollars from the fines each year.

    In other efforts to change the population balance of Xinjiang, China is dangling land, jobs and economic subsidies to lure Han migrants there. It is also aggressively promoting intermarriage between Han Chinese and Uighurs, with one couple telling the AP they were given money for housing and amenities like a washing machine, refrigerator and TV.

    It links back to China’s long history of dabbling in eugenics….you don’t want people who are poorly educated, marginal minorities breeding quickly,” said James Leibold, a specialist in Chinese ethnic policy at La Trobe in Melbourne. “What you want is your educated Han to increase their birth rate.”

    Sultan describes how the policy looks to Uighurs like her: “The Chinese government wants to control the Uighur population and make us fewer and fewer, until we disappear.”

    Once in the detention camps, women are subjected to forced IUDs and what appear to be pregnancy prevention shots, according to former detainees. They are also made to attend lectures on how many children they should have.

    Seven former detainees told the AP that they were force-fed birth control pills or injected with fluids, often with no explanation. Many felt dizzy, tired or ill, and women stopped getting their periods. After being released and leaving China, some went to get medical check-ups and found they were sterile.

    It’s unclear what former detainees were injected with, but Xinjiang hospital slides obtained by the AP show that pregnancy prevention injections, sometimes with the hormonal medication Depo-Provera, are a common family planning measure. Side effects can include headaches and dizziness.

    AP News - China cuts Uighur births with IUDs, abortion, sterilization

    If you think that an organization with ties to the CIA wouldn’t do research about and uncover stuff that would benefit them, and would instead make up a global conspiracy based off of unproven misinterpretations of government records that can only be seen by genocide denier shitstain Riverside, then I don’t know what to tell you.

    "But Adrian Zenz is far-right!" 🤡

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    • Cowbee@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      I already debunked the forced sterilization narrative in this comment, all you’ve done is link more people circling back to Zenz’ deliberate falsification of data, along with chauvanistic claims that China wants Han supremacy. In fact, like all other ethnic minorities, Uyghurs were exempt from the One Child Policy, and all ethnic minorities have better representation at the NPC than the Han majority precisely to make sure the voices of ethnic minorities in China are not shut out.

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    • Riverside@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      I literally explained you that Xinjiang used to be exempt from single-child policy for the longest time and then stopped being. Fines for people with more than one child were the norm in all of fucking China, you uneducated twat. The rest of the text quoted are the famous “anonymous interviews”, and fearmongering using the availability of family planning in fucking hospitals

      Xinjiang hospital slides obtained by the AP show that pregnancy prevention injections, sometimes with the hormonal medication Depo-Provera, are a common family planning measure

      Omg, people in Xinjiang have access to family planning, literally genocide.

      In other efforts to change the population balance of Xinjiang, China is dangling land, jobs and economic subsidies to lure Han migrants there. It is also aggressively promoting intermarriage between Han Chinese and Uighurs

      Oh noooo, economic subsidies in the region and promoting cultural exchange, literally genocide!!

      Honestly, fuck you. This bullshit is a form of genocide denial by minimization, claiming that everything is a genocide is actually extremely negative towards Palestinians suffering actual genocide.

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