Comment on Hee Hee Ho Ho Ha Ha
conartistpanda@lemmy.world 18 hours agoTL:DR; Please don’t be angry and don’t go full Trump supporter on me and ignore all of this cause you don’t believe that it’s true. Help me see the truth. If you did see these collar pics then tell me what is it I’m not seeing myself that proves it’s a vibration only collar and not a shock one without prongs? Tell me and I’ll listen. Please, just refute the hard evidence. I WANT to believe you.
If you still need a reason for me to care so much: Autism.
The video of the incident looks like what people says that happened, looks like he reached his hand somewhere (supposedly the remote) and Kaya complains. It could be a coincidence of course, and it doesn’t help that Hasan doesn’t show the collar immediately after (although understandable, not a realistic demand since he has no reasons, it would be great if he did but in the video you linked there didn’t seem to be anyone accusing Hasan from shocking Kaya, looks like that came later). Because of this we can only speculate.
The debunk video doesn’t debunk anything, he acknowledges that people are looking at his supposedly vibration only collar but he doesn’t acknowledge exactly WHY they’re doing it (aside from right grifter assholes wanting to smear him), he doesn’t actually stop and debunk it. The reason people points at the collar is because it looks just like the vibration version without the prongs. He missed an unrealistic opportunity to proof himself when he did not show the collar when it happened (again, understandable), and he lost a very realistic opportunity in this debunk video by not showing it again but in more detail to prove it’s not a shock version. I mean, he doesn’t call it “modded shock into vibration only collar”, he claims that’s just a vibration collar, nothing else. I can’t stress enough how bad it is that he doesn’t show the collar in more detail, if he wanted to end all of this he would’ve just zoomed the fuck into it and shut everyone up, It’s easier to believe that he’s hiding something that believing he is dumb. It is very suspicious. You can always say he was nervous but he’s probably got plenty of time to plan the debunk.
(This is only speculation you can skip this paragraph) In the video he also claims that Kaya hurt herself. That implies she has a vibration collar on but he didn’t use it, so he can’t really go “I used a collar but it only vibrates” since that would mean he lied, and if he lies then how is anyone supposed to trust him? If he did we’d be in a “alt right moving goalposts” like situation.
I don’t need to see the one loving his dog. I mean “He loves Kaya” is sadly not a valid proof that he didn’t shock her unlike actual pictures of the collar, and three things can be true at the same time:
- He loves Kaya;
- He shocked Kaya;
- Stinky (literally) Asmnogold-like people are using it as an excuse to shit on him and exaggerate on what happened.
And the best way to judge a situation is by keeping it cool. Getting to know Hasan better is sadly not a good way of thinking things calmly and subjectively the same way falling into the ragebait shit right wing grifters upload would not be ideal.
But I’m not here to judge if Hasan is a dog abuser, I’m here ONLY to judge if he shocked her, for my own sanity, because I’m seeing all this evidence pointing out he did it yet people don’t seem to acknowledge it, similar to how right wing nutjobs won’t understand cheeto man is a pedofile rapist despite all of the evidence, it’s like they can’t see the evidence or maybe they do and they don’t care because “the left only wants to shit on him”. The equivalent in this situation would be Hasan fans not caring Kaya got shocked because “the right only wants to shit on him” (which is true, but that doesn’t justify not calling him out on what he did IF he did it), don’t get me wrong, I’m NOT saying shocking a dog so it doesn’t move is on the same level of a super mega pedophile ring, and justifying the former is much, MUCH better than the latter, I’m just trying to get the point across that Trump’s fans will either justify whatever he does or blindly believe everything he says because they’re out of touch fanatics. Maybe they genuinely believe he didn’t diddle the kiddlers. Maybe they just don’t bother to either look at it or to exist in the same reality we do, probably because they like the guy. I don’t want to believe Hasan fans are on the same realm of ignoring reality and evidence because “I like him he would never”. This whole situation feels the same to me. Look at that debunk video, it proofs my point, Hasan glares over the issue and explains people hating him is making stuff up to hate on him, but he never addresses the actual stuff being said on the videos which only makes me think he can’t and only hopes his fans will blindly defend him, then you go and link it as if it does prove something.
But lets give him the benefit of the doubt, what if he uses a modded shock collar so it only shakes. Why not say that? What if he just has a vibration collar that looks EXACTLY like the shock one? Like a knock off or something. Just show the model online, and again, the collar itself closely.
If you read this far, please. I IMPLORE you to look at the videos of the people comparing the pictures on his streams showing the collar with the images on the collars site I linked, don’t just assume that you won’t get anything from it like a Trump supporter wouldn’t look at the Epstein files. Yes, these people probably don’t give a flying FUCK about Kaya, but that’s beyond the point here, the point is if he shocked her. The pics with the collar he showed make it clear (at least to me) it’s then shock version without prongs. They can’t be fake cause they’re taken from his stream and Hasan doesn’t even claim them to be fake, he just doesn’t claim anything, the only thing preventing you from looking at and comparing them would be blind trust.
All I want you to do is compare the collar Hasan shows with the pictures of the collars on the websites and tell me why that is not a shock version with prongs removed. If you don’t want to do it cause you think Hasan is innocent, think of all the alt right nutjobs that won’t look at the Epstein files because Trump is “innocent” so there’s no point (not saying shocking a dog is as bad as mass child rape, just pointing out how fanaticism clouds people’s judgement). Keep your mind open and I will keep mine, but refute the hard evidence, refute it. Don’t change the subject or say things like “Nu uh he loves Kaya”, that’s not evidence, neither is “I like him he would never”.
JDPoZ@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
I think you’re good, friend. No worries.
Really (and I know one of the videos I shared in another comment covered this but I don’t want to torture you by asking you to comb through my novella of work in this thread to go read / watch) the problem with trying to “prove a negative” is that for every piece of evidence you can try to prove that negative, it’s not hard to then come up with another reason why that evidence isn’t sufficient.
Like when I was a kid, my Dad accidentally burned my hand with a cigarette while handing me a baseball with that same hand he had the 🚬 in. If he said it was an accident though, how would he prove that he did NOT do it on purpose to anyone else who saw my hand and then I told them it was my dad who burned me?
See, the difference is that I can tell others my Dad didn’t do it on purpose… that he never ever did it ever again… that I have no other burns anywhere else on my body, no bruises, and that I know my Dad loves me. Kaya can’t talk. But we can look at her and see she doesn’t wince in fear from him, that she wags her tail every time he looks at her, that she walks close to him in public - even without a leash sometimes I think.
This is why I would suggest to try looking toward other clues to ascertain whether or not this claim has merit - rather than “prove this collar doesn’t have shock prongs.”
I’ve seen the pictures of the collar, and I watched the video the dog trainer did on the clip shared by another user and then commented in detail on that.
However, after all of that… and - again given how hard it would be to convince anyone on the prong situation other than just “that seems like kinda way too conspiratorial and work to be true” - I really just find it way more likely that - given the lack of any other moment where Kaya seems to have been in any sort of stressful situation captured on camera in the MASSIVE backlog of Hasan’s streams where you see her - and not just her laying in her spot, but her on walks with him in public, her with him while podcasting on his other shows with others present - he has never shocked her or ever done ANYTHING to cause her to audibly yelp or whimper or howl or pee herself or anything else even a SINGLE other time.
I think that makes it just a lot easier to believe that the shock did not happen.
I don’t know if that convinces you, but as I said - it is exceedingly hard to prove a negative short of the dog herself just being able to say “yeah he didn’t do that” in the same way I told others the truth that “my dad didn’t mean to burn me with the 🚬 when he handed me the ⚾️.”
Hopefully all that makes sense. 😓
conartistpanda@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
I’m glad you’re taking your time to answer me, and I think I understand. What you are saying is basically that since Kaya doesn’t look like she is abused it makes sense to think Hasan would shock her, and if he did who cares (me I guess) since she’s loved. Honestly I don’t care about Hasan being an abuser at this point, just about IF in that very moment, that very day, he used a shock on Kaya. As you say “prove this collar doesn’t have shock prongs” is not a good argument for demonstrating Kaya is being abused, but it is a good argument to try to determine if “that very moment was shocking for her”. I can tell that 99% of people accusing him of being a dog abuser are not acting in good faith. But why not think about the possibility of both Hasan loving Kaya AND giving her a shock that time being true? Maybe he meant to give a smaller shock and regretted it when she cried, realizing the collar was set to a stronger setting than he though (my theory). Maybe he got the shock version cause it was on discount and intended on only using the vibration version but accidentally fucked up (not my theory but funny though). Any of these possibilities would need Hasan to admit he did do it, even if by accident.
Maybe that’s what happened and he thinks he can’t be honest about it because it would only feed the smearers, which I’d understand cause they sound like the same kind of people that would hit you back five times as hard if you accidentally hurt them somehow and again, bad faith. If this is what’s happening then people who want subjective truth and that are not easily manipulated by feelings (at least I think I’m not, I try not to) suffer as a consequence. I WANT REALITY AND REALITY IS… IS… (I’m going to say the N word)
spoiler
NUANCED
I just don’t like being lied to, and I’m sure that many other will be put off by Hasan and his fans if the fans defend him without even looking at the evidence. It’s setting a loud ass alarm in my brain. Look at this from the view of an outsider, the proof is there but no matter how much it’s put in front of people faces they refuse to acknowledge it, the goalpost moving is (as lots of bad clickbait youtube videos say) insane, some people say the shock didn’t happen, some that it doesn’t matter etc etc. As someone who has never seen the guy, that looks as bad as people trying to defend roack god’s alarm rat, which I don’t know if it happens but knowing roack’s fans it sure did.
I don’t think its completely impossible to prove a negative, I mean, I can’t prove that Jesus Christ doesn’t exist. But I can point at all other gods that are there and say “what are the chances he’s the real one?” It’s not a definitive answer but I think it’s a darn good one. In this case, we got a guy that looks like they reached to something right when the dog complained, then said the dog did it by themselves, then showed a collar that looks like a manipulated shock version. Then he doesn’t show the collar on greater detail. So… “what are the chances he didn’t do it and he’s trying to cover it for whatever reason?” is a darn good argument for me. And I think he ran himself into a corner by not showing the collar better on multiple occasions like I mentioned. As I said before, fans not agreeing on what happened and what to defend doesn’t help him look good.
So I will ask you again, just once more, to take a look at the pictures, not to convince you that Hasan is an abuser or that he eats children or that all he says is not true etc etc. but rather to know the OBJECTIVE TRUTH of what collar he has. Yes, it sounds conspiratorial to say that the collar he had is a shock one without the prongs, but if the latter year told me something is that there’s no conspiracy theory that’s too crazy or stupid to be true. Well, except flat Earthers, fuck those. And if you somehow for some reason DO change your mind about the subject (at most you’ll probably be like me and think he did shock Kaya on accident) you will have the satisfaction of falling into the trap of believing what’s more convenient but then escaping it! I mean, you answered me without getting angry and seemed pretty sincere like a reasonable person should. My only request is for you to give it a shot. Hell I have an old Joplin document stored that I tweaked and exported to PDF then uploaded into some site I found called file.io just for this moment, that way you don’t have to do research for something that hurts to even consider. I’ll leave the link here somewhere, if it becomes inaccessible for any reason make me know. I just demand your attention, not because the algorithm demands it since I don’t get paid for this, but because I want to see it, ✨NUANCE✨.
JDPoZ@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
OK, let’s go deep dive here.
Those products in the images you shared (wow via Limewire too, cool!) are still sold by a company.
Each one of them has a PDF with schematic drawings and shows all the parts that can come on or off of them.
Here’s the one for the official PDFs direct from the maker’s site :
ET-300 :ecollar.com/…/2024-04-09-ET-300-302-manual_outlin…
From page 5 (6 in the PDF page browser, but titled 5 in the page header) :
Image
PG-300 : ecollar.com/…/2024-04-09-PG-300-302-manual_outlin…
From - again - page 5 (6 in the PDF page browser, but titled 5 in the page header) :
Image
Page 4 for the ET mentions nothing about shocking or electricity or anything other than a “tapping sensation” being able to be sent and a “stronger” version that can be used in an emergency.
But let’s imagine this WAS a model with the removable prongs AND their “tap” is just corpo speak for electrical shock and that the prongs were removed…
Now comes even more questions if we want to be honest at what scenarios were possible :
Did Hasan buy this thing himself or did someone who’s a dog expert get one for him as some sort of package deal? Does he have a dog caretaker that puts this thing on Kaya?
Could that someone else have taken the prongs off when they first put it on Kaya? Is it feasible that Hasan did OR DID NOT know about the fact the prongs could come off… and consequently then - if someone else set it up, would he even think to mention it if he wasn’t the one who first took the device out, set it up, and put it on Kaya?
Hasan makes enough money that he has his mom paid to cook for him, I’m sure he has people who clean for him, I’m sure he has people who manage his accounts. I think it’s feasible then to surmise he might have someone who handles getting Kaya groomed, trained, who purchases Kaya’s food for Hasan, etc.
I have a someone close to me who sent their dog away for training for several months when they first got them (by the way I think this is kinda crazy and don’t condone it, just saying this is what they did) and when the dog came back, they had an entire package including training tools and materials, as well as a detailed set of commands given to them by the trainer from their program.
Again, I think there’s enough space here to interpret it either way.
Rich people sometimes delegate their tasks to subordinates, right? I know so many of his critics complain he’s a champagne socialist or whatever… fine… so if he’s a rich guy then, I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility that Hasan would then have possibly assigned some task or as a part of some larger dog management related task of “buying the best collar and equipment for Kaya” by someone who would think that “well let’s get him the one that could do shocking, just in case,” but then that person taking those prongs off by default and not telling Hasan… who then could say “it doesn’t do shock” because the handler told him that…
Is any of THAT a fair possibility?
Again, I think this all doesn’t really matter in the bigger picture… because the memes were created to imply that Hasan loves electrocuting the shit out of his poor dog… not that he did it 1 time out of 1000 days that he’s had her in his care and that we need to fully solve the matter of “did he shock her that one time?”
I do NOT think he shocked her… because that seems to be the simpler more rational assumption to make - given all of the other factors mentioned already… and if we’re going to go down the rabbit hole of these details of the model that could possibly be used, well, then you can also speculate on how that model was POTENTIALLY set up for him maybe by someone else and that Hasan reasonably might not think to go into the details of that to then explain the situation. It didn’t have prongs? Maybe it did and someone else removed them.
All of this is speculation - again because it’s very hard to prove a negative here… because given the number of possible variables we simply cannot fully determine the full reality of, and the unending appeals that can be made… so the assumption of charitability toward the situation is just as valid as the assumption of guilt.
And in that scenario, the only logical pursuit is that of looking toward external factors that would best indicate the truth.
Hasan does not seem abusive, he seems to love the dog, there’s no other clear evidence he has abused her (on the contrary - as we both have seen - the many video compilations of the 2 together seem to indicate that Hasan loves Kaya dearly), Hasan knows that giving this accusation attention only seems to make those who accuse him want more evidence to prove he didn’t shock her and those who are his fans seem convinced already.
It was reasonable to ask Hasan to address it once and he did… and he presumed it would end the discourse one the subject… but I believe that it’s like the Obama birth certificate thing at this point - no matter what is shown, they will still say he’s not really an American. “oh he didn’t release the longform one!”