Comment on Is the "Gen z stare" a real thing?
bss03@infosec.pub 1 day agoyou’re being paid a wage in exchange for your labor and we need your labor on this specific task. “So I don’t get a say in it?” Well, NO, you don’t…what on earth would make you think you think that?
Yes, they do. They can just go home, or walk around the block, or work on something else. No matter what your employer tells them, they aren’t a slave at any point in time.
Will there be consequences? Absolutely. They might get fired. They might get sued. If the task is sufficiently important the State might consider them not doing the task criminal negligence.
This isn’t entitlement, it’s choice and freedom, and perhaps having different priorities than the person assigning tasks. Everyone, including GenZ: Do you, and if you can try to spread joy and reduce suffering.
Do remember tho, someone has to keep the infrastructure working, and it’s often not clear where in joy in that lies.
Angrydeuce@lemmy.world 1 day ago
FWIW, I agree with you. But to be clear, I didn’t list that choice because I felt it was obvious. They absolutely can walk out and not ever come back, they have that autonomy of course.
Where I make the distinction is where the line is drawn as concerns continuing your employment. If you will not perform the tasks expected of you, you will no longer be paid, your badge will no longer open the front doors, and you will not be working here. If that’s the decision you need to make for yourself, I fully support and there are no hard feelings on my side of the desk. I can and have had those sorts of frank discussions before, and it comes with my role in the company as it stands today. Don’t want to work a job with a set schedule? No problemo man, I get it, but that’s not how it is here, so best of luck to you in the future!
But as long as the wage is being drawn, and I’m asking for things that are part of the job expectations that are listed on the documentation they signed when they started working for us, that is beyond the point of negotiation. I’m not an asshole, and I have never in my life assigned a task that I have not personally done myself when I was in their shoes. The tools and technological gains have made their role easier by orders of magnitude then where it even was when I was the intern all those years ago. But when my mentor was assigning my tasks, never in a million years would I have thought that I had the right to dictate to my boss whether or not I would do that task if I wanted to continue being an employee of the firm. I felt it was pretty obvious and clear to anyone that has worked in their lives that it do be that way…I dont get to tell my boss what Im doing if I want my boss to continue employing me.
That is the disconnect Im referring to…the fact that people are taking jobs thinking that they get to dictate what the job entails, even after being told what the job entails, even after signing documentation saying they agree to what the job entails. Where does that come from? And why are people so surprised that refusing to do what a job entails means that you no longer can reasonably expect to continue that job?
bss03@infosec.pub 1 day ago
I don’t know, but I saw something similar in my father (RIP). He would agree to something, then get some benefits, then later attempt to “renegotiate”. That sort of behavior isn’t something “GenZ”. Some people just want to squeeze water our of rocks, even if it is deleterious to their relationships.
Similarly, I’ve certainly had employers that, despite my job duties clearly not covering the task would ask and expect me to perform other tasks “for the good of the company”. It’s fairly common these days for job offers to include “and other duties as assigned” because employers want to have all the power, and I’m fine with workers (of any generation) just refusing to comply.
It does sound like the employee was being unreasonable and maybe should be dismissed, but that doesn’t get the task done either, so maybe the “do it, you have no say” approach isn’t any better. And, I have no idea how I’d handle it. I kinda don’t like delegating stuff anyway, so if I thought the task was important I’d do it myself unless someone happily volunteered. But, I know that might not “scale” the way it needs to make the business work.
Angrydeuce@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Oh, believe me, I know that’s not just a GenZ thing. I’ve worked with people that were in their 60s that would pull the same sort of shit. I think it’s human nature to react negatively to being asked to perform an annoying task, and there are many shades of gray in whether the task itself is justifiable or not. Where I differ though is that in my own experience, so long as a request was reasonable, even if the request itself sucked, I didn’t refuse to do the thing, or at least, knew that if I refused to do the thing that it might have negative consequences on my continued employment.
I’m not a slave driver…believe me, I am very selective with delegating and like I said, I have literally never once in my life, not ever, asked someone to do something that I haven’t done myself and know intimately what it entails. I’ll delegate the task and even help them along by giving them guidance on the most efficient way to complete it…way more than I ever got, that’s for damn sure; where Im at now had a real sink or swim mentality before I came along and was able to shape things more constructively when it came to developing our new hires and that’s reflected in the changes in our turnover over those years.
But anyway, getting back to the point, it’s not just a GenZ thing, but it is something I’ve noticed at a much higher percentage in our younger interns and entry level employees then the years pre-Covid. Everyone is different, but that weird sense that they can have their cake and eat it, too…they can just opt out of doing what’s expected of them and still somehow expect to not have any consequences for doing that…that’s the thing that I see more and more as time goes on among the fresh hires where Im at. The surprisedpikachu when they’re getting talked to about the fact that they’ve rolled in a minimum of 20 minutes late every day this week with no explanation and that’s not okay. Being accused of being unreasonable for talking to them about it in the first place, like I’m out of line with the expectation. That’s the attitude that bothers me, and it’s more common then I’ve ever seen it before.