Comment on Anon notices some fan service

• lime@feddit.nu ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  look ricky, i know you’re reasonable. we’re not talking about the character in a vacuum, we’re talking about kojimas extreme defense of what would otherwise have been accepted as just standard fanservice, and the fact that the excuse was so flimsy. quiet doesn’t fit into her setting, sure. that happens in a lot of japanese media. but kojima made such a big deal about it before release that she somehow fits in worse than if he had said nothing.

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  • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    we’re not talking about the character in a vacuum, we’re talking about kojimas extreme defense of

    Deflection / Framing Control

    That’s what you’re talking about.

    You’re dissatisfied with the canon explanation for Quiet’s exposure, you think Hideo made too big of a deal about it, that Hideo should have just said ‘yep I’m doing fan-service’.

    Ricky is just stating that he finds conventionally physically attractive women physically attractive, that this is not a fetish, that wearing clothes that broadly fit the climate and Quiet’s combat role is not exhibitionism.

    You keep talking past him, and the original commenter, never acknowledging that you keep throwing out tangential exaggerations, based around Kojima, that don’t apply to the people you’re talking to, the things they are saying.

    You’re talking, but you’re not listening.

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    • lime@feddit.nu ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      wow, good analysis. genuinely, you managed to de-escalate any tension before it appeared.

      the reason i’m talking about framing is that that’s what the thread is about. saying “i enjoy attractive ladies in games” in this thread is implicitly in the context provided by the OPs image; the implicit sentence here is “personally i had no problem with quiet in particular”. my original pushback was that context matters, and that the stated reason something is made needs to be taken into account. like, since kojimbo stated that there was a very good reason for her to act and dress like she does, the fact that the reason is bad makes the decision worse. that’s a hole he has written himself into, it’s a very weird inclusion, and the fact he keeps defending the decision just makes it weirder.

      i also like sexy women in my games, but i’m not the kind of person to just slap nude mods onto tomb raider or resident evil. there is a time and a place.

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      • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Sure.

        Keep explaining why you’re saying what you’re saying.

        Yep, your understanding of the implicit context is such.

        Other people can have different implicit understandings of context.

        And you still aren’t listening, you’re rationalizing, explaining yourself.

        I already explained what you are doing.

        I understand.

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    • Calfpupa@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I agree with most of this, save for

      conventionally physically attractive women physically attractive, that this is not a fetish

      it definitely is a fetish, just one of the most socially accepted ones.

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      • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        … I see where you are going with this, but as with ‘exhibitionism’, … that really strains the definition of fetish.

        Thats… basically just preference, in terms of sexual/aesthetic attraction.

        A fetish is an obsession with … essentially, a particular body part, a particular kind of activity (which may or may not be typically regarded as related to sex or attraction), a particular kind of clothing, a particular kind of body form/feature.

        Regardless of where and how exactly you draw the line there as to what does and does not count as a fetish… a core of the concept is that it is fairly uncommon, and particular.

        A guy, being broadly attracted to women who are generally considered attractive, just, in that broad of concept… yeah, its heternormative as hell, but its basically the opposite of a fetish.

        What is and what is not ‘a fetish’ is basically the opposite of what is extremely socially accepted.

        While I totally think that the actual attempt to draw the lines of what is and is not a fetish… reveals the concept itself to be kind of fundamentally nonsensical… the general idea is that it is unusual, and that is the core of what the vast majority of common usage of the word revolves around.

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