Comment on Are users who openly parrot literal Nazi talking points allowed here?
Nath@aussie.zone 12 hours agoThat’s good to see, but as of right now the Nazi’s explicit mask-off comment is still up, and they are still not prevented from commenting further in the future.
Which you’re clearly good with, since your screen-capped version of the comment is also still up. The purpose of moderation is to prevent people from being exposed abhorrent content, spam, unsolicited nudity, scams and other harmful content. I’m reluctant to step into discussions that are clearly between actual humans as a general rule, unless they are being abusive or derailing threads. I could also count on my fingers the number of human user accounts I’ve needed to actually ban from the site. Whatever a power-tripping mod is, I am not.
The next time you think a comment should be removed, I would recommend that you don’t go out of your way to be sure more people see it as you report it. As things stand, I see more value in this moment as a learning point. Yours is still the only report that particular comment received. The truly offensive stuff, I can be pinged by half a dozen reports within 30 minutes of the comment being posted. I also remain unconvinced that the user who made that comment would self-identify as a Nazi. Zionist, sure - though that is apparent more from other comments than this example.
Zagorath@aussie.zone 9 hours ago
That may be one purpose. But it isn’t the only one. Another is shaping the norms of a community and what is acceptable. I’ll share the parable of the Nazi Bar, but put it behind a collapsible spoiler in case you or anyone else is already familiar:
The Parable of the Nazi Bar, by Michael B. Tager
I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, “no. get out.” And the dude next to me says, “hey i’m not doing anything, i’m a paying customer.” and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, “out. now.” and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, “you didn’t see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them.” And i was like, oh ok and he continues. “you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it’s always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don’t want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.” “And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it’s too late because they’re entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.”
I’ve shared my thoughts on why this particular user deserves the label Nazi elsewhere in the thread, and my reply to Lodion in particular also includes some of the justification for including the screenshot. But I’ll elaborate on that particular point here.
I don’t think mere exposure to that kind of Nazi rhetoric causes direct harm. Which is why I did not think it was causing harm to screencap the comment. Instead, it is the long-term permissibility of that content which causes harm. The Nazi Bar. If Nazis’ views are permitted, you get more Nazis.
I shared the comment first of all to highlight that user in particular to anyone viewing the thread to warn them off from engaging. And also to highlight that same parallel that I made in the reply to Lodion. That even if one person may not themselves be a Nazi, they are engaging in some ideology that is dangerously close to that of Nazis. Highlighting an actual Nazi whose views they would agree with was supposed to serve to emphasise that parallel, while serving as a dis-endorsement of the Nazi’s own view. I think that sharing harmful views in the specific context of highlighting both that and why they are harmful is not at all similar to simply having those views and sharing them sincerely.
Nath@aussie.zone 6 hours ago
This is incorrect. The community shapes itself. The community is lovely. We are not it’s shapers.
You’ve been here about as long as the instance has existed. In the almost three years we’ve been at this, have you ever seen us shaping discussion? Who the hell am I to dictate to everyone what the norm is, anyway? I’m just some guy on the Internet.
I was reluctant to remove a reported post on /c/worldnews the other day, despite it being in clear violation of the sidebar rules.
One neat thing about Lemmy is moderation is all transparent. The modlog is just down there on the bottom of every page. You’ll see that just about all the accounts I ban are for spam with a smattering of troll accounts. We are accountable to the users and not some secret group manipulating discussion out of sight.