Comment on ICE Supreme Commander spotted in Minneapolis
zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 2 days agoIt’s possible some enablers around him like Makeeva or Letz would spike woman so they’ld sleep with Till … but that doesn’t mean he himself was aware of it.
Are you saying that it’s ok to have sex with someone if they’re drugged, inebriated, or otherwise impaired, as long as you aren’t “aware” that they’re drugged, inebriated, or otherwise impaired?
Airowird@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 days ago
By you saying “aware” I’m assuming you’re insinuating “Wir habben das nicht gewusst” ?
No, I’m not ok with pretending not to know someone can’t consent.
But I’ll Devil’s Advocate this one: There was alcohol & drugs present and being used consensually. I’m going to assume Lindemann did so as well. If at some point someone looks inebriated, are you gonna think it was involuntary? If two people go to a bar, meet eachother and agree have sex, is that abuse? And what if they both willingly got drunk first?
Imho, the key factor is intent, trying to make somebody do something against their (sober) will is always wrong. Spiking someone’s drink is coercion, because you force them into another state of mind without their consent. But if a stranger at a party at a bar acts drunk, would you immediately think they got drugged? Or does one’s informed consent to get inebriated also include the common consequences? And would you think differently if that person was drunk at a work party vs a dive bar?
I don’t know enough specifics to be certain what happened either way, but as someone who has willingly opted to get inebriated in the past, I always considered the consequences as part of that choice. (As long as the inebriation occurred voluntary) I’m aware that some people may see that as a “blaming the victim” argument, but I do draw the line at knowingly abusing someone’s state of mind vs both parties being inebriated and trying to have fun.
The main logical discrepancy I see is Lynn’s account of Lindemann running off angry. If he was a serial rapist, he probably wouldn’t do that, he’ld coax her into having more of her spiked drink until she was too inebriated to say no. I think Makeeva got those women just high enough to agree to try some (more) drugs to get them going, to make her look like she knew how to pick the party animals.
But that’s just my opinion based on the evidence I’ve seen. YMMV
zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
This situation isn’t comparable to consenting adults meeting at a bar. Providing drugs and alcohol to “entice” women into having sex is predatory behavior, whether or not the women partake consensually or not. Play devil’s advocate is you want, but I don’t think that behavior deserves defending/rationalizing/whatever you want to call it.
Airowird@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 days ago
So you’ve never asked a romantic interest or Tinder date to have drinks? Because the moment you pay the bill, how is what you’re doing any different?
zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
No, I’ve never employed the aid of drugs or alcohol to obtain enthusiastic consent before engaging in sexual activity with any of my partners. If there’s no enthusiastic consent, I do not pursue sexual activity. Using drugs or alcohol as an aid in acquiring enthusiastic consent is predatory.