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what i meant by that is: people used to hate internet explorer because it was the worst. even though it changed completely, people still hate it because of it’s history.

That’s precisely my point though. People are not talking about the product, they’re talking about the company/history. Not only was the original Edge very much “not Internet Explorer”, but nowadays Edge is running on Chromium, making the whole comparison to IE even stupider. But people still do, because “Microsoft Bad”.

people think linux is hard because of it’s history of requiring the terminal for basic functions.

People think Linux is hard because it still requires terminal for basic functions. Source: a guy who moved to Linux full-time over a year ago.

people don’t want stuff shoved down their throats without consent, which seems to be what microsoft is really good at doing

I get that, but what’s the relation of that to what I was talking about? I’m talking about comparing the capabilities of various LLMs where people will swear on their mothers that Copilot is the worst shite they ever saw, not realising that it’s essentially the same as ChatGPT.

Source: ran LLM testing and implementation in two different companies.

that’s the same issue with edge, since whenever you uninstall it (which has to be done through unconventional means), it’ll just reappear the next time the system updates.

Yeah, that’s not the case for years now.

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festnt@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

That’s precisely my point though. People are not talking about the product, they’re talking about the company/history. Not only was the original Edge very much “not Internet Explorer”, but nowadays Edge is running on Chromium, making the whole comparison to IE even stupider. But people still do, because “Microsoft Bad”.

yeah. idk where you keep seeing this “microsoft bad” thing. people don’t like it because of its history. people still mostly use chrome because they learned it was faster than firefox, and now that they’re equal in speed, people still think of firefox as slower. not wanting a company’s product doesn’t have to mean they hate the company.

People think Linux is hard because it still requires terminal for basic functions. Source: a guy who moved to Linux full-time over a year ago.

if you don’t use one of the distros that come preinstalled with a bunch of ui apps that do stuff that used to require a terminal, sure.

I get that, but what’s the relation of that to what I was talking about? I’m talking about comparing the capabilities of various LLMs where people will swear on their mothers that Copilot is the worst shite they ever saw, not realising that it’s essentially the same as ChatGPT.

if you get orange juice shoved down your throat, you probably won’t like it, even if you generally like orange juice.

Yeah, that’s not the case for years now.

oh well, it is true that i haven’t used windows for years now.

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- Alaknar@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  
  yeah. idk where you keep seeing this “microsoft bad” thing
  
  *points at this thread*
  
  I also gave you a bunch of examples already. Just visit r/Windows or r/Windows11 and you’ll get an eye full.
  
  if you don’t use one of the distros that come preinstalled with a bunch of ui apps that do stuff that used to require a terminal, sure.
  
  That’s just completely wrong. You can’t set a secondary drive to auto-mount on boot without CLI, fixing a failing BT device connection requires CLI, if an AppImage fails to launch due to AppArmor, you need the CLI to fix it, can’t prevent the OS from switching a BT headset to the “hands free” mode without CLI, etc., etc., etc.
  
  if you get orange juice shoved down your throat, you probably won’t like it, even if you generally like orange juice.
  
  If you’re talking about the nutritional value of different juices, you wouldn’t say “orange juice is shit, has zero nutritional value” just because you don’t lie it, would you?
  
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  - festnt@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    
    I also gave you a bunch of examples already. Just visit r/Windows or r/Windows11 and you’ll get an eye full.
    
    ok yeah. microsoft being bad is a reason not to use their stuff
    
    That’s just completely wrong. You can’t set a secondary drive to auto-mount on boot without CLI, fixing a failing BT device connection requires CLI, if an AppImage fails to launch due to AppArmor, you need the CLI to fix it, can’t prevent the OS from switching a BT headset to the “hands free” mode without CLI, etc., etc., etc.
    
    EDIT: some distros maybe allow changing this stuff through the GUI - I went through three, all with KDE, so maybe that’s why I needed CLI, but that’s also kind of the point - unless you really spend time to learn about the particular distribution, you never know what you’re going to get. Which, to the new users who will not want to spend time to doctorise themselves on the subject, means that it’s an added difficulty layer.
    
    yeah i never ran into any of those issues, and i kinda doubt any unexperienced user would do any of that. except for the bluetooth thing, since i know a lot of people use bluetooth (though i honestly didn’t even understand what that issue was)
    
    If you’re talking about the nutritional value of different juices, you wouldn’t say “orange juice is shit, has zero nutritional value” just because you don’t lie it, would you?
    
    i’m talking about the choice to drink it or not, but whatever. is there a reason to ever use copilot over chatgpt? i don’t use either
    
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    Alaknar@sopuli.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    
    i kinda doubt any unexperienced user would do any of that. except for the bluetooth thing, since i know a lot of people use bluetooth (though i honestly didn’t even understand what that issue was)
    
    Anyone with a secondary drive to store their documents and games library on (which is a lot of users) will run into the issue with the drive not being mounted on startup. Which means that every time you launch Steam and forget to mount the drive first, it throws errors and you can’t launch your games. Then you have to quit Steam, mount the drive manually, re-launch Steam, and hope that it will remember where your library is. Or, if you’re installing a new game, that it will remember to use your secondary drive as the default installation location.
    
    i’m talking about the choice to drink it or not, but whatever
    
    Yes, I know, you’re talking about something completely different.
    
    is there a reason to ever use copilot over chatgpt
    
    I was running the tests in two companies, basically sending identical prompts to both, comparing results. Sometimes one gives the better answer, sometimes the other. Often Copilot will start with less precise answer and you need to prod it to elaborate and it ends up with a near-identical answer as ChatGPT.
    
    So, for personal use - might as well use Copilot since it’s already there. On top of that, if you have an M365 subscription, you get its integration with Office apps, which is actually kinda’ amazing. For example, you can ask Copilot to generate a table with formulas in Excel. Of course you need to check and verify if the formulas are correct, but that’s the case with all LLMs.
    
    In a business setting, though, ChatGPT is hot garbage unless you’re a massive company. I was in a company of around 500 users and they weren’t even interested in giving us the Enterprise-tier license. The Teams-tier license didn’t have any form of user management. As in: the Owner or Admin could bulk-invite people through a CSV, and that’s it - no reporting, no sorting by activity, nothing. On top of that any user could invite anybody to the same tenant. I had an Admin account, invited my company email address as a Member, switched sessions, and invited my personal gmail account as a Member, which worked. What’s even worse, there’s no domain control or anything - I switched to the gmail account, and invited another personal email address.
    
    So, if you’re a disgruntled user, you just download a CSV of a billion email addresses, upload that, and voila, you just bankrupted your company, because invoicing starts at invitation, not after the invited user activates the account.
    
    It was 100% insanity.
    
    And Copilot, again, integrates with all MS products, so it can, for example, remind you that you had a conversation on Teams with someone about a topic you’re asking it about.
    
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