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Comment on France seeks to ban social media for children under 15

Lol. Yes it’s that simple.

Look, I’ve raised 4 kids. I run OPNsense with filters. I’ve enabled parental controls all on their mobile phone connections. My kids were and will be the last that got a smart phone in their year. I’m an active member of smartphone free childhood in the UK; I’ve engaged with U.K. members of Parliament on the topic. I’ve worked for tech giants whose sole purpose it is to create “habits” ie addiction in amongst children. Regardless I’m not talking about just my kids, I work in education and engage with multiple schools on the topic.

You come back to me when you’ve taken kids through the landscape they exist in today.

It sounds like a pretty one sided view you’ve got there and maybe, just maybe, it could do with some nuance.

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limerod@reddthat.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
There is no such thing as anonymous data. It has been proven all data can be linked to you. The only data that is anonymous is the one they don’t collect.

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- sunbeam60@feddit.uk ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I agree that for the system to be anonymous the state has to live up to its commitment to anonymity. Have you read the EU’s regulation about this? In there is exactly a commitment that age verification has to be anonymous.
  
  But, let’s take a reality check here:
  
  For the vast majority of the population, their ISP already collects every single website they visit.
  
  if the state wants to know what you’ve searched for and where you’ve been online, they already have that data stored. They can only access it legally with a court order.
  
  Yes you can circumvent this logging (to some extent) through VPN - just like you can circumvent the requirement to verify your age with a VPN. But the vast majority don’t.
  
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- gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  the only way to have privacy-preserving age checks is when there’s a variable on the phone that stores whether the user is old enough. and gives that data forward to apps/websites trying to do age checks.
  
  that variable can only be changed if you’re the rightful owner of the device, i.e. if you paid for it and have a code that’s on the purchase bill or sth. and children wouldn’t have access to that.
  
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  - limerod@reddthat.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    This wouldn’t work and be moot because phones and other devices are purchased by parents and guardians not children.
    
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    gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    then they should hand out access tokens at the supermarket (need to be 18+ or 16+ whatever the age limit will be)
    
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FarceOfWill@infosec.pub ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Im not sure what youre arguing here? its possible to control access well as a parent, but so much easier if the state gorce everyone on the internet to provide id in order to prevent teenagers talking to eavh other?

You yourself csn tsrget what you think is harmful but a law will hit everything and everyone, and like i implied in the driveby abiut roblox still might not actually block something you find unacceptable.

This is just the wrong approach to achieve the goal.

Youre on lemmy! This is like the one place people will decry facebook, x, reddit, insta etc. But what your arguing for will end up with them as the only services that can navigate existing legally, and children will still work around blocks because they simply dont care about consequences for lying about their age.

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- sunbeam60@feddit.uk ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Our democracy regulates a lot of things that it (we) believe to be harmful to children: Cigarettes, gambling (also online), pornography, violence in media, alcohol etc etc.
  
  Why is social media any different?
  
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  - FarceOfWill@infosec.pub ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Because the line between “social media” and “talking to other people” is so blurry as to not exist.
    
    Also, and more importantly, the power of these companies is so great in effect youll only enforce that facebook etc. are the only ways of talking to each other that van exist legally and entrench the very problem you want to solve.
    
    For example, is whats app social media?
    
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    sunbeam60@feddit.uk ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Defining what is and what isn’t something is exactly what law has to do every single time it gets defined. I’m sure we can work this one out too.
    
    The size of the tech giants cannot be the reason to not attempt regulation. If anything, it’s exactly the reason to regulate.
    
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  - fantasyocean@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Who said that there can’t be regulations? The argument that we’re making here is that a ban that requires users to give out more information to companies that have a horrible track record in protecting user information is a bad form of regulation. I for one would be extremely happy if there were tighter and more severe penalties for advertising to children. Removing the profit incentive for any of these companies to have children on the platform at all.
    
    Legally requiring human review for things like YouTube Kids (which nobody should be using anyway, especially when the PBS kids exists) and having a harsh penalty if an Elsa gate scenario happens again, like it ever stopped but still.
    
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    sunbeam60@feddit.uk ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    There’s nothing in the EU age verification structure that requires you to hand more information to the places where you need to verify your age. In fact the system expressly prevents it.
    
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Noja@sopuli.xyz ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

What’s more, it is possible to verify age online in a way that doesn’t enable governments to see what sites you visit

Would you upload your ID to Lemmy? Because that’s what the “age verification” requires you to do. Maybe you’d rather upload a video of your face from many different angles, which is absolutely never going to be used for nefarious purposes, pinky promise.

Without Karens like you, we wouldn’t have shit like the OSA. That’s why there are so many angry replies. Now you have to pay for a VPN to have free access to the internet in the UK, many UK hosted sites had to shut down or block the UK wholly for UK users.

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- sunbeam60@feddit.uk ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Once again, have you read the EU proposal?
  
  The UK, no longer part of the EU, of course have gone much softer and enabled non-anonymous verification. I am of course deeply against this.
  
  What I AM talking about is the ZKP method mandated by the EU, which is anonymous.
  
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  - Noja@sopuli.xyz ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    There’s no such thing as anonymous age verification, you can browse the web freely without creating an account. Age verification removes that anonymity. I don’t really care about the EU age verification shit, we already have that in Germany, porn websites of course ignore that law because nobody would use their site if they had to verify everyones age. They just removed all .de domains.
    
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  - fluffykittycat@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    No ZKP system can work because someone can generate hundreds of tokens and hand them out to whoever wants one.
    
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    sunbeam60@feddit.uk ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Only the entity that owns the private key can generate signed tokens. You can read about the Danish solution, which is the first and most developed implementation of the EU’s requirements for anonymity: digst.dk/…/implementing-age-verification-with-dan…
    
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- fluffykittycat@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Yeah that person sucks ass. I won’t tolerate that shit
  
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fluffykittycat@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
What the fuck are you talking about? They want your damn photo ID of course they know who you are. Truth just wanna silence young people because they don’t like genocide

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- sunbeam60@feddit.uk ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  What are YOU talking about?
  
  I’m talking about French age verification, which is a national example of the EU’s ZKP age verification system.
  
  To the instance that issues the ZKP tokens you of course have to prove who you are. Once you have the ZKP age verification tokens and actually use them to prove your age, those tokens are negotiated solely between your device and the asking entity.
  
  Have you actually read the EU’s required structure for this?
  
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