Comment on It's always been women in STEM.
shawn1122@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago-
al-Qarawiyyin was started as a mosque-madrasa complex.
-
Science and spirituality were inexfricay tied during this era. As an example, Dharmic concepts of sunya led to the conceptualization of zero and its use in mathematical operations which is foundational to many subsequent advancements and necessary to our communication through this platform.
-
Part of what sets al-Qarawiyyin apart is that it offered degrees or certificates of scholarly achievement before other institutions.
-
This is why UNESCO’s World Heritage description of the Fez Medina explicitly calls al‑Qarawiyyin “the oldest university in the world,” and the Guinness entry lists it as the “oldest existing, continually operating higher‑learning institution”.
drmoose@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Nah I think OP is right. Googling around the story seems mostly made up for bragging points. It also started as religious school not sciences 100%.
shawn1122@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Interesting that googling would take precedence over UNESCO or Guinness in a science community of all places.
If we want to cite that lack of archaeological evidence makes the story unverifiable, that’s a starting point.
But I’m going to trust actual organizations with institutional standards over googling. That’s just me though. Other readers can draw their own conclusions.
AlligatorBlizzard@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
I trust UNESCO, but isn’t Guinness basically pay-to-play, like if I got together with my entire city and we baked the world’s largest pizza, verified by a number of neutral third parties but I don’t pay the $$$ to bring the Guinness team, according to them it doesn’t count?
skeuomorphology@feddit.uk 3 weeks ago
The UNESCO claim seems to be false, too. There is no mention of al-Qarawiyyin in UNESCO’s description of the Medina of Fez: whc.unesco.org/en/list/170
In any case, UNESCO make it crystal clear that they only publish the nomination description, which is written by the state party (in this case the Government of Morocco). UNESCO understandably and explicitly disclaim the description documents, and only publish them for transparency.
I do wish we didn’t have these reality-distorting memes everywhere. Leave them to the far right - they don’t do Islam any favours, and they piss off real historians.