Comment on DarkPattern.games » Healthy Gaming « Avoid Addictive Dark Patterns

• ranandtoldthat@beehaw.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  The core problem here is that the author(s) don’t seem to consider that not every game is intended for everyone, and instead seem to imply that if they’re not for everyone then some of the reasons they aren’t is a “dark pattern”.

  I really cannot be exhaustive because there are so many problems. But I will try to give a few examples. Fair warning: As I wrote the below, I began to get a bit irreverent because reading the text is pretty upsetting so I needed to lighten my own mood. I guess maybe the authors here are using some sort of dark pattern? /s

  “Some games have special events that occur during specific times. If you want to participate in the special event, you must play during this time window. Players who work or travel may be unable to play during these time windows and will miss out and feel stress.”

  Many ARPGs that have fixed-length events that occur over a period of hours, days, or months. Some games (eg. Grim Dawn) even have these modded in by players. Are those players modding in a dark pattern? Maybe the author of this personally doesn’t like the idea that some people may be left out by work or travel requirements, but like, can’t the rest of us enjoy our game without being effectively told that work and travel come first, so therefore it’s a dark pattern?

  “Some games use the time of day to change aspects of the game. Maybe certain items can only be collected at night. This forces people to play the game during times when they might not otherwise play.”

  Like, don’t play a game during a time you don’t want to? There are game developers that would like to experiment with this type of mechanic.

  " Some games use a mechanic called “Harvesting” which can be implemented in many ways, but in general the player starts an action that will take some long time to complete. The player must return to the game at some specific time in the future to collect the reward. Sometimes, the reward is lost if not collected in time."

  Welcome to almost every city builder, management game, automation game, and so on. It’s perfectly fine if some people want instant gratification in your games, but some of us really enjoy these types of mechanic.

  “Another way that developers implement an Infinite Treadmill is by continually expanding the game and adding new content. It might be possible to complete everything in the game right now, but soon the developers will release new levels and extend the game.”

  So adding new content to a game is now a dark pattern? This is just way too general.

  “Additionally, if someone is already bored with a game and a new event is announced, the player may stick around to see if the new event rekindles their enjoyment in the game in which they have already invested significant time and money.”

  Oh no, boredom, we can’t allow people to be bored in the hopes that they find newfound enjoyment in an old favorite game.

  “This is often combined with the Playing by Appointment dark pattern. For example, the team may have a raid or other event scheduled for 10:00am. Because players don’t want to let their team down, they may rearrange their schedule or play the game when they should be at work or doing something else important. A player on vacation may be desperate to find a WiFi connection so they can login and support their team.”

  Oh no, some gamers treat their games like a social hobby with meetings and events, this must be a dark pattern.

  "If the game allows you to share resources, trade items or send gifts to your friends or other players then it may be using the dark pattern of Reciprocity. The person who receives your gift may feel a sense of obligation to return the favor. They may not have resources to share, and so they may feel bad that they gave something valuable away, or they may feel shame or guilt if they do not reciprocate. These unwanted negative feelings make the game less enjoyable. "

  Oh no the game encourages… sharing digital items? I don’t know where to start.

  And then, the whole section on competition is a mess. Like yeah there can be problems with competitive games, but again it’s just so overly general. Oh no a kid who lost a game of basketball wants to play more to get better?

  "For people who collect things, the collection can have significant emotional value. It may connect them to something that they enjoy or feel strongly about. Some people collect for the thrill of the hunt, others may collect because it gives them a sense of security or control. Others may derive great satisfaction from having a complete set and feel anxious when they are missing a piece of a set. “All of these psychological effects contribute to making you keep playing the game, even if the “playing” of the game is not enjoyable anymore.”

  This reeks of “you’re not playing it right”. I’m not a huge fan of collection games, but I am close with people who really enjoy that style of gameplay. Thats WHY they enjoy them. Not because of some other “playing” the game, but because collecting things is playing the game for them.

  I’m going to stop there.

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• Goodeye8@piefed.social ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  For example “Reciprocity”. Unless it’s something I’ve never seen in gaming I don’t see how that’s a dark pattern. Giving other players stuff is not a dark pattern, the “dark pattern” is when the person feels like they should contribute back. How can a game make a player NOT feel like they should contribute back? There is nothing a game can do to fix this which is why I don’t see how that can be a dark pattern for games.

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  • CrypticCoffee@lemmy.ml ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    This one is a fair point.

    Some games do create a need to depend on some. For example, in Old School Runescape, you make a decision in a quest and rely on someone who made a different decision. You cannot change it and you do depend on them. So they may feel obliged to reciprocate. The obligation is created due to a game design decision rather than because of an intrinsic decision of players.

    Some games are set in such a way where you cannot of progress without assistance. New players can get locked out of progression. Maybe this could be relevent in those cases.

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• ranandtoldthat@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  I just found a recent video from Chris Wilson that does a much better job distinguishing dark patterns from game mechanics some people might enjoy and shared it here: beehaw.org/post/23297295

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• WALLACE@feddit.uk ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  You can pause stardew valley, just open a menu

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  • CrypticCoffee@lemmy.ml ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    I guess so, you just cannot quit midway through a day without losing progress or sleeping early and losing a day. There is a negative cost that forces to play to when the dev chooses rather than you.

    Great game, great developer, but it is a dark pattern.

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    • TehPers@beehaw.org ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      It’s not a dark pattern. It’s a technical limitation.

      Concerned Ape wrote that game with very limited programming experience. Having significantly modded the game in the past, the code is a mess, but indicative of someone who is learning to program still.

      While I haven’t played SDV in a long time, there was a mod when I played that allowed you to save at any time. It was buggy as hell.

      It’s an indie game made by one dude. He got some help from CF for multiplayer and porting, but that was about it.

      At this rate, all indie games have dark patterns lol.

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      • CrypticCoffee@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        So he’s capable enough to add new islands and content, but not change a trigger on how to save. One button. Same logic…

        A buggy mod by someone who didn’t write it doesn’t mean it’s not possible. Many mods are of poor standard and don’t have access to the same code or the facilitate a way to change something, so they often have to work around whatever APIs are exposed.

        It is a dark pattern. You can like a game and someone and still be able to be critical of a game design decision they make. Not everyone is good or bad. A hero or villain. No one is perfect.

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