Comment on Hrmmmmm
save_the_humans@leminal.space 20 hours agoMore like every time there’s been democratically elected socialists or communists, western powers intervene with staged coups, assisinations, or embargos.
Comment on Hrmmmmm
save_the_humans@leminal.space 20 hours agoMore like every time there’s been democratically elected socialists or communists, western powers intervene with staged coups, assisinations, or embargos.
DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
Even if that’s true, so what? Immortality being impossible does not make the recipe from my example any more useful. You are just pointing out one possible reason why communism doesn’t work in reality. Still doesn’t work.
Valmond@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
You’re discussing with brainwashed tankies who can only answer “what about xyz in the west” to any kind of, even constructive, criticism.
Lots of anarchists are like that too, a shame because there is surely something to take from those kind of ideas.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
If you say something is bad, you must have some frame of reference to know how bad it is. So if you say communism is bad, we will want to know, “relative to what?” And since capitalism and western hegemony are the dominant systems, naturally they will draw comparisons. And those comparisons will be unfavorable since capitalism is clearly broken and incentivizes great evil.
So OK, we’re still not really discussing the merits and flaws of communism as they stand on their own, but most of you aren’t ready to accept that almost everything you have learned about communism is a lie and you definitely aren’t ready to engage with the actual historical record.
So instead, the arguments revolve around what-aboutisms. Because most of you deny the evidence of your eyes and just listen to daddy. Long before we can delve into how the soviets actually existed in the world, you have dismissed us as “tankies” and stuck your fingers in your ears.
tomi000@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
This is like saying the idea of solar panels is bad because capitalists work against them to destroy their reputation. Judging a system based on the assumption that theres someone else trying to destroy it is very simple minded.
DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
A political system is not some random piece of infrastructure, like a solar panel. It’s more comparable to a padlock. It’s entire point is to manage human nature. If all people were benevolent and willing to work for collective good on their own, we wouldn’t need political systems at all. Neither would we need padlocks. A padlock that can’t hinder an intruder is a bad padlock. A political system that can’t handle human nature (greed, lust for power) is a bad political system.
tomi000@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
So youre saying a political system can only work if there is not a single aspect that can be taken advantage of? Thats equivalent to every single person being controlled 100% in their actions. If thats your idea of ideal, sure. I guess some people currently being in leading positions would agree with you.
mang0@lemmy.zip 18 hours ago
In many of these cases, the political system which couldn’t withstand coups were democracies. Does this mean that democracy isn’t useful? Are you saying that democracies should forbid socialists from being elected since if they get elected then america will intervene and the democracy will cease to be useful? Sounds like you don’t care for democracy and self-determination of nations. Bonus points will be awarded for being able to make your point without a potion metaphor.
DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
My entire point is that political systems like democracies are not isolated from economic systems. Democracies fail when combined with communism, because all power is concentrated in the political apparatus.
mang0@lemmy.zip 7 hours ago
The problem isn’t political systems, it’s superpowers intervening, e.g. america funding fascist coups of democratically elected socialists. It would be hard for any small nation, regardless of political system, to defend against a coup funded by a superpower. Please prove me wrong and tell me how e.g. the coup in Chile 1973 could have been prevented by decentralizing power.