Comment on Anon doesn't enjoy anything
hotdogcharmer@lemmy.world 4 weeks agoThe first one is an instruction to the enslaved telling them to obey their masters, whether they’re kind or cruel.
- Does that sound like the Bible says slaves should not be enslaved, should rise up and free themselves or be freed by others?
To your second point, the passage names Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. The bible actually refers to these groups separately, and collectively as the “nations” that are encountered by the Israelites. These groups do (generally) have distinct identities and practices.
- The passage Deuteronomy 20:17 commands followers to “completely destroy” each of these groups. How does that not constitute any sort of genocide?
I am absolutely happy to be wrong, and I’m not intending to be hostile - I know these beliefs are deeply held and are personal, and I’m not attacking you for your faith. Just want to make that clear! 👍
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 weeks ago
The first one is about non violence and submission. It’s not about slavery itself, so not saying people should be enslaved. But it’s saying slaves shouldn’t rebel. Slavery was generally accepted until recent times, and at this time it was typically a temporary arrangement in regards to debt rather than chattel slavery.
The passage in Deuteronomy is just about those people groups, from a historical event. It’s not a command that should be reflected in the modern day. The Messiah has came, there’s no need for violence anymore.
hotdogcharmer@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Sure, slavery was generally accepted until very recently - so would you say the bible endorses slavery, or denounces it?
Right, it’s the Lord commanding people to wipe out those groups. Whether or not the command should be reflected in the current day, that passage was written. That passage contains the Lord commanding people to wipe out groups - would you agree, or disagree?
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 weeks ago
Yes, wiping out groups in pre messianic times was commanded.
The Bible doesn’t really take much of a position on slavery, although it is generally protrayed as a bad thing. Although if we were to bring up the topic of bond servants nowadays- is it really that bad if a bondservant is treated well?
Leviticus 25:10-11 ESV [10] And you shall consecrate the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you, when each of you shall return to his property and each of you shall return to his clan. [11] That fiftieth year shall be a jubilee for you; in it you shall neither sow nor reap what grows of itself nor gather the grapes from the undressed vines.
Leviticus 25:39-40 ESV [39] “If your brother becomes poor beside you and sells himself to you, you shall not make him serve as a slave: [40] he shall be with you as a hired worker and as a sojourner. He shall serve with you until the year of the jubilee.
Luke 4:18-21 ESV [18] “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, [19] to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” [20] And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him. [21] And he began to say to them, “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.”
Although Jesus did focus more on spiritual slavery than physical. You could be physically enslaved but spiritually free. Many today are physically free but spiritually enslaved.
hotdogcharmer@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Okay, so we can agree that the Bible has at least one passage that commands genocide, in that time, for those four groups? Not a gotcha, not a criticism of your faith, just a question about the content of the scripture.
Yes, I think slavery is bad even if the slave is treated well. Those Leviticus passages are interesting. Who is the “you” addressed in them? What’s the meaning of “your brother” in the second - does that mean any person, or a specific “in-group” of people?
The Luke passage is nice! It seems, from just the passages I’ve shared and the passages you’ve shared, that the Bible acknowledges slavery as extant during the various periods it was written, and sits on the fence about it. Was there a passage about how much you should charge for a slave, and how you should beat them? I believe I’ve heard that somewhere, but can’t look it up right now.