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Second, and pretty unrelated, I think feminism is a dishonest platform and has far exceeded its mandate. Women are oppressed in the Middle East. To say they’re oppressed here currently, relative to males, is somewhere between dishonest and delusional.

First wave feminism had a very strong reason to exist. Second wave as well. But intersectionality is a complete mess that only creates problems instead of solving them, and ideas like antiracism are positively counterproductive

Anyway, feminism doesn’t have a monopoly on egalitarianism. You can be pro-equality without being feminist, despite what feminism would say.

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Warl0k3@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
And gays are literally crucified in the middle east, and yet the fight to be allowed to change one tiny letter on your driver’s license is important. Why does the first one negate the second one?

Sorry, that was snarky. But seriously, where are you getting this? No not in a dismissive way, I think there’s commentary to be found here - but I’m incredibly curious what actual interaction with the subject you’ve had. The opinons you’re presenting here are almost identical to the fundamentally misinformed ones presented by commentators like ThunderF00T, Sargon of Akkad, Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan and Charlie Kirk (I can find examples of all of them repeating this stuff…) and I’m pretty sure you’re smarter than this. I don’t see that you’ve been confronted about these ideas in the last two months on lemmy (and that’s clearly all I can draw on), but have you ever confronted these ideas?

You’ve presented an idea of the world that’s quite optimistic, except on this one point that you hold an inherently contradictory position on. You’re reacting with habitual hostility, not reasoned consideration. Please, please, think about this. Have you ever actually gone and listened to, say, any video essays from feminist figures? Have you ever engaged with feminism at all outside of internet commenting? Or are you being told that this is what feminism is.

Feminism is necessary. It’s not delusional, it’s not dishonest, and women’s and men’s rights are being eroded every day in the western wold because of the current far-right administrations. When does it start being acceptable for women to fight back again, when every victory the second-wave feminists won have been reverted (instead of just half of them)? No, really, that’s a good question.

(And… what? What’s wrong with intersectionality? It’s literally just the study of biases in culture, it’s a core branch of sociology, and the first tenet of anti-racism is education about the historical realities of racism. There’s nothing more to it than that.)

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- ronigami@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Well, I’m on my phone so apologies if my replies are shorter generally. I will attempt to answer some of these. Yes, I have engaged in a ton of discussion with hardcore feminists. I have listened to podcasts by them including Stuff Mom Never Told You and unfortunately read Brotopia. This is not my first rodeo. And you don’t need to listen to Tate or Kirk any of those extremely distasteful people to know that feminism claims to speak for men’s interests while completely ignoring them. Feminism 100% claims to be acting in the interest of both men and women, and at least for men, it completely falls short of that. You will try to correct me. That is the problem.
  
  Any ideology that posits “<ideology> is necessary” is self-serving and borderline cult. The ideas of the ideology are what matter, and the ideology itself is just a name. If the ideas were any good, you should just as easily be able to create a new ideology from those ideas with a different name and have it be just as valid.
  
  Which is really funny because masculism and feminism both claim to be about equality. But only feminism is the one that is right, apparently.
  
  A good chunk of the population has been listening to feminism for… decades. What do you mean, when will the grievances be heard? We’ve heard them. Women are oppressed, the second sex. Abortion is a right. Equal access to healthcare. 84 cents to a dollar. Alimony. Some of these are addressable, some of them have been addressed, and some of them are not addressable. It’s complicated.
  
  Perhaps I should be asking you when will men’s grievances be heard?
  
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  - Warl0k3@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    I’m sure I’ll get into the rest in a moment, but for the sake of “I’m cooking dinner”: to your mind, what are men’s grievances?
    
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    ronigami@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Sure thing. Thanks for asking. Well, I would say main ones are:
    
    Family court — completely asymmetrical treatment of men, basically for every 7 chances a woman gets in family court, a man gets 1. This is a made up number but it’s to get the essence across.
    
    Male disposability is widely accepted and not compensated for at all. A good example of this is mandatory selective service which still exists today.
    
    As a result of the accepted disposability, men have a far higher death rate both by accident and by suicide rate (which is 400% that of women)
    
    Title IX imposes unjust punishments on men in colleges by favoring “preponderance of the evidence” standard over the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard — basically, if there’s even a slight chance of sexual misconduct, men can be thrown out of college without any kind of trial.
    
    Asymmetrical definitions of rape which only apply to men in definition and also in practice are enforced mostly on men.
    
    The above denial of female rapists leading to severe mental health issues for men who are raped or sexually abused by their female parters.
    
    Generally men’s lagging acceptance rates into university (this would be more of an equity issue on par with the 83 cents to a dollar issue, as opposed to an equality issue like the others)
    
    Demonization of fathers — the number of stories of fathers getting dirty looks for taking their kid into a changing room or even just existing in a playground with their kid are unending.
    
    Last but not least, “male loneliness epidemic” which I think is a stupid phrase and this is one of the more unaddressable issues by everyone but it’s still a problem.
    
    I never said the core idea of feminism isn’t egalitarianism. Just that you can be egalitarian without being a feminist, since feminism involves so many other ideas. They don’t all spring from “equality” and equality itself has many different conceptualizations. Feminism’s conceptualization of how to achieve equality is essentially limited to, “women should be given more supports” which is not a good way of thinking about it any more than an elevator’s best way of operating is “just move the person higher and higher.”
    
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