most people dont understand languages. it’s sad and i dont understand why they don’t understand. thanks for some sanity in here.
the barrier to OPs husband sounds like lack of interest / hope.
Comment on Are some people just unable to become fluent in a foreign language?
cacti@ani.social 1 day ago
No, pretty much everybody is able to acquire another language unless they have a neurological disorder that makes them unable to acquire any language at all.
You don’t need to be young or be a child to acquire a language either. The critical period hypothesis is a causation-correlation fallacy at best. It points out many issues directly related to traditional language learning methods and not acquisition of another language at an older age; the issues it points out are the resultant bad pronunciation, spelling errors, grammatical errors upon trying to output etc.
These do not result from “improper age” or “an inability to learn another language”, they result from how society as a whole has accepted “formal study” and “language courses” as the best ways to acquire a language, which they are definitely not.
Language acquisition is achieved first and foremost by comprehensible input. Hundreds and thousands of hours of comprehensible input. This can consist of any type of content a person enjoys watching, as long as it’s language dense, easy to understand at the start and slowly harder going forward. A good figure to aim for is 10,000 hours of this.
Production of language, or output, is not beneficial to the learner, especially at the first few thousands of hours where it can permanently damage the learner’s ability. The reason for early outputting being so detrimental to language acquisition is that as the learner doesn’t yet completely know how the target language sounds, and they don’t understand grammar rules intuitively yet because of the lack of input, anything they force out will in all likelihood be incorrect and they will unconsciously reinforce the incorrect grammar and pronunciation they just outputted.
So the best way to get to fluency is by doing as much input as possible and as much no output as possible. This is also usually called immersion learning, but it just goes off of this principle.
You did mention immersion in your text, but considering that you live in an English speaking country you most definitely were forced to output early to at least survive, which damaged your speaking skills. The reason your reading may be bad is that you may not be reading enough English. If you’re talking about language courses when you say “formal study“ and not skimming through a grammar textbook just for an easier time with immersion, which you most likely are, that may have harmed your perception of how English sounds too due to toxic input (the incorrect speech/writing of other learners).
Tatsumoto‘s website is pretty useful for more information and resources on input-based learning. It is primarily for Japanese but as language acquisition doesn‘t differ from one language to another it doesn‘t matter and you can just skip the Kanji-specific parts. I would just think twice about joining their community as they are pieces of shit though, but the website is really well made for a complete language acquisition guide which only uses Libre tooling.
TimewornTraveler@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
avattar@lemmy.sdf.org 1 day ago
Really interesting stuff, thanks for sharing.
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 1 day ago
TBH that sounds like saying anybody can become “fluent” in calculus if they just apply themselves. In my experience that’s just not the case. People have different aptitudes. You might be right that with sufficient motivation and unlimited time, anyone without a neurological disorder could theoretically learn a language, but in a real-life context where people have a lot of other concerns and responsibilities going on, I think some people are reasonably able to do that and others not so much.
cacti@ani.social 1 day ago
The problem with your first point is that in the case of language acquisition, there is no “aptitude” for it. The process of language acquisition is more or less the exact same in every person, the only exceptions being people with literal neurological disorders. And you don’t really need unlimited time for this process. It takes around 1.5 years of immersion at 18 hours per day to reach 10,000 hours, 3 years at 9 hours per day, and 6 years at 4.5 hours per day. The trick for reaching the 10,000 hours is just actively consuming compelling TL content whenever you’re free and would normally consume native language content (active immersion), and then listening to them once again while on your way to work or brushing your teeth or something (passive immersion). As an example for compelling content, what drew me to learn English in the first place was mostly popsci and video game content that I was really interested in and that were simply not available in Turkish. I would also recommend having smaller weekly goals instead of one gigantic goal that you are likely to stress over (like the 10,000 hours).
And the concerns you list are mainly time & motivation related, but the OP is asking if some people are literally worse at/incapable of acquiring a foreign language, which is not the case at all.
The guide I mentioned in my comment covers more topics than I could ever fit in a comment, including different types of immersion (passive and active), different types of active immersion (intensive and free flow), SRS, software, other helpful websites, techniques and much more so I would just recommend giving it a read if one decides on diving into language acquisition.
blarghly@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I mean, this is a valid point, but framed negatively.
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Depends on how you take it. When you say anyone who doesn’t have a neurological disorder can do something it puts a negative light on people who haven’t done it. Not being multilingual is a common negative statement about Americans, for example, always comparing them with Europeans. But most Americans don’t live close to multiple places where different languages are prevalent, so their only reason to learn other languages is purely academic. Similar to the average person’s motivation to learn calculus. I think I framed it pretty realistically.
cacti@ani.social 1 day ago
No, it simply doesn’t. If one doesn’t want to learn a language, they simply shouldn’t (and this includes wanting to want to learn a language). This is a personal issue, and it should not be an excuse for spreading any kind of misinformation about the topic.