Comment on Is anyone else not feeling that patriotic for July 4?

• Allero@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  For what it is in what respect? You tried to argue that Cold War is a good vs evil situation, I argued that it is very much not.

  I fully admit Russia is and always was (I told you why nineties don’t really count) an autocracy, and that actions of Russian rulers have caused a lot of misery and suffering. This doesn’t stop me from admitting the US is a deeply flawed democracy, that American rulers are known to take plenty of unpopular decisions (including wars that no one asked for), and are generally known to not care about lives of people outside the country, causing even more misery all around the globe up to this day.

  And this is exactly why I want the governments to have less power, and advocate for direct democracy. Any power is potential for abuse, and Russia and the US have likely proved it the most. Curbing the power of all governments, big and small, has great potential to reduce violence and abuse. With direct democracy and independent media, Russia could have never attacked Ukraine, Israel could never attack Palestine, and US wouldn’t threaten to enter Iran yet again. Russia also wouldn’t have opposition in jails or abroad, US wouldn’t send immigrants to Alligator Alcatraz, and level of human misery would be so much less.

  As long as we lead ourselves to believe that this misery and suffering is righteous or “not that bad” to any degree, we empower the tyrants all around the globe.

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  • Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I’m with you on a lot of things, but my angle is this:

    If Russia, Iran, NK & China was democratic, the world police (the US, but now the EU is stepping up too because of the US president clown show) would need to do way less interventions in the world, just for the basic security of their people (they do bad things too I know that), and could like feed the people and so on.

    I’m throwing in Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, and a whole ton of other non democratic countries here. Before they let the people decide, we have to band together in the free world and do what we can to help them, if possible.

    So no, we can’t become bohemian hippie countries just yet :-)

    Or so I think.

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    • Allero@lemmy.today ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      So, bring in security by initiating wars?

      My point is, these interventions have never been about democracy, or freedom, or security for that matter. They were about forcibly creating dependent puppet states acting in the economic interest of the US and reinforcing its hegemony, locals be damned. And it’s what every “successful” invasion has provided.

      Take something like Chile as an example (it’s a particularly black-and-white one, but there are plenty more). It was a liberal democracy ran by an elected President, who just so happened to be socialist. The reforms he has introduced threatened foreign capital within the nation, including the American one; as a result, CIA has first launched a propaganda campaign, and when this failed, sponsored and armed a coup that led to the instatement of a brutal and bloody authoritarian regime.

      Did the country become more democratic? No. Did it become safer? Hell no. But it suddenly became very dependent on and friendly to American capital, which this entire operation was all about.

      If we want some real world police, we should extend the scope of the UN Peacekeepers, instead of relying on a country with a hundred year history of arbitrary invasions and covert interventions. We need the peacekeeping force to be globally recognized and supported.

      I don’t know why do some people feel their country is entitled to carry world’s justice. It’s not better or more just, it’s just properly defended against retaliation.

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      • Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        Allende was like 50-60 years ago. Let’s talk about today? Say the nineties and onwards at least? But I feel you’re stuck with the Kremlin whataboutism and cannot see a good thing if any kind of bad thing happens, even if it was half a century ago+. Again, the idea of a “country” is very prevalent in your explanations IMO, which discredits your ideas IMO.

        The UN? Lol, yeah sure, a police for everyone except for the powerful veto countries, how do you even think it should be ran?

        But I think you have your fundamental ideas, and they are incompatible with mine it seems, so thanks for the chat but I’ll stop here.

        Cheers

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