Comment on Is anyone else not feeling that patriotic for July 4?

• Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Oh fuck my comment disappeared 😑

  Edit:

  I’m trying to recreate the long post:

  Russia boats/ships/buss people from Africa to the Finnish border while simultaneously doing “immigrants Violent & bad” psyops is what I meant as using immigration as war.

  After peristroika we was relieved not because you were friendly with the US/ Europe but 1) no more hot or cold war (you’d be surprised how we saw Russia from our side, an agressive dictatorship on our border basically) 2) A shot at democracy/freedon for the russian people (that they blew.)

  For the rest I’m quite on board, with some caveats ofc. We need a government because everyone can’t know everything, we need trusted people to run our schools, hospitals, nuclear plants and so on. For the rest? Yeah bring that power down to the people!

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  • Allero@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Oh, I know that feeling! Sorry to know the long comment is gone, happened to me more than once.

    Oh, so you attribute the rise of Finnish right-wing to Russia as well, as in Russian agencies artificially create a wave of anti-immigration and then sending immigrants in? Honestly, with all the real damage Russia has done, I feel like it is used as a scapegoat here; among a few reasonably confirmed cases (mostly of Russia killing dissidents abroad etc.), there is a sea of practically baseless speculation. Last time I saw this was a few days ago, when German military vehicles burned and journalists attributed it to Russia because some random pro-Russia Telegram channel mentioned it (and did so with clear errors).

    Cold war, we should remember, was a two-sided conflict. It was not good vs evil, it was capitalist world full of red scare and propaganda vs communist block full of authoritarianism and, again, propaganda. Both sides could do much more to maintain peace, it’s just that one side has eventually collapsed, leaving the other to rule the world. And as much as Europe was concerned about USSR being on their doorsteps, so was USSR concerned about militarization of Europe with the aid of the US. That’s what this entire showoff is based on; it’s not a one-sided show of intimidation, and, arguably, both sides would rather not have it.

    I’m not sure what you consider to be a shot of democracy - perestroika itself or the dissolution of the Soviet Union? In first case, yes, it was a welcome change, but as some of the Soviet republics, particularly in the Baltics, were essentially held in by force and censorship, it was a catalyst for the future dissolution. Dissolution itself brought a lot of freedom to the former republics which were not super fond of being Soviet to begin with, but was a disaster for Russia, Belarus, and new states in the Middle East. In the latter, there was nothing to blow as there was nothing democratic about them to begin with - it was just a bunch of new dictators.

    Speaking of Russia in particular, while trying to show a face of democratic change, Yeltsin has consolidated power by creating puppet parties (including a puppet Communist party), silencing opposition by not letting them into main federal TV channels that were the main information source at the time, and destroying actual democratic institutions, sometimes with actual military force (see the assault on Congress of People’s Deputies). By the time Putin (heavily endorsed by Yeltsin as the new leader of the country) got to rule Russia, it was already heavily in United Russia party’s grip. Make no mistake - this was a show of democracy designed to be blown.

    We should certainly have experts running and planning critical parts of the economy, but we should also make sure it’s as hard to corrupt as possible. Governments are prone of injecting propaganda in schools we both care about, cutting medical spending, and attacking nuclear plants during the wars. If we should have governments at all, they should either work through as much of direct democracy and self-organizing as opposed to representative power (which is quite close to anarchy), or through careful and open computerized planning with active input of the people.

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    • Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Dude, it’s always Russia. Hybrid war, hot war, cold war, it’s always Russia. Maybe you can find someone falsely blaming Russia for something, especially on the internet, but 99.9% of the time the trace goes back to the good old Kremlin.

      BTW Finland was just an example, it mostly happened in the baltics.

      Now, if you try to portray the cold war as some “both sides” you need to get your head out of the russian propaganda (kind of funny that you are protecting the country you live in).

      BTW I grew up in a country between the NATO and the Warsaw Pact, so I was there and I saw it all. If I had to jump in a plane and go live in the USA or the URSS I wouldn’t have hesitated a second, no one would have. Russia is a invasive dictatorship hellhole and has aways been, we had some hope after the glasnost but yeah Russia blew it.

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      • Allero@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        This took a weird turn, and I hoped we are on the same page.

        I do not support Russian government, and I hoped I made it very clear. All I call for is being honest when making accusations towards anyone.

        “Russia is behind this” became a common trope that seemingly doesn’t need any confirmation. Someone called it on Russia - then Russia it is. It’s an instrument of propaganda, and it’s how people are trained to believe whatever they hear.

        Cold war is literally both sides, and I don’t know what angle makes it not true. Could you elaborate why you put all blame on USSR, exactly?

        There were issues with USSR, and quality of life and level of democracy was generally higher in the US; but what does it mean in the context of foreign relations? Isn’t/wasn’t the US literally the number 1 most invasive country on Earth, with military installations all around the globe and an insane toll of global conflicts and inflicted misery? With all respect, if we compare these two countries specifically, USSR was rather a cute little nuance, and it must take a lot of indoctrination to fail to see it.

        Again, this is not to say either USSR or Russia are flawless or even good; a lot of fuckery went on in each, which has caused immense suffering. But if we consider Russian/Soviet imperialism, we should be sure not to apply double standards, or else you’ll risk overlooking dangerous precedents.

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