Comment on We live wasted lives

• Zombie@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Communism (from Latin communis ‘common, universal’)[1][2] is a sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology within the socialist movement,[1] whose goal is the creation of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered on common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products in society based on need.[3][4][5] A communist society entails the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6] and the state.[7][8][9]

  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

  Let’s see how the USSR performed against this definition of communism.

  • Common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products in society based on need.
    Kind of, the state owned most means of production and distributed products. Arguably based on Russian need rather than any other Soviet republic’s need. Let’s be generous and say partial pass for this one.

  • Absence of private property and social classes
    Presumably this is private property as in the distinction between personal and private property set out by Proudhon. In that regard, as the state owned most all private property, in a way it was absent. But the state still owned it, and the state is counter to communism. Social classes still remained.

  • Ultimately money
    Still existed.

  • The state.
    That definitely still existed.

  So what part of the USSR was real communism? Kind of common ownership of the means of production and kind of the absence of private property. All other criteria were failed.

  source

  • squaresinger@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Tbh, I don’t even think the first two points apply.

    Ownership by the state, especially a state that the people have no control over, isn’t really ownership of the people. The main point of ownership (also under communism) is control. If I own something, I control it. I can decide what happens with it. Under capitalism the worker doesn’t own the factory, because the worker has no control over it. The worker has no say over what or how or when the factory produces, so the worker doesn’t own the factory.

    Under the USSR system, the worker also has no say over anything regarding the work. The only difference is that the owner isn’t another person but the state.

    Something like the early stock corporations would be closer to communism. There each worker owns stock in the company and thus can vote on what the company does.

    ---

    Same goes with social classes. There certainly was a class difference between party member (or at least high ranking party member) and non-party-members.

    Private property also still existed, just on a lower scale. People still owned their cars, their stereo systems and all the other items of daily usage.

    (I’m not disagreeing with you, just trying to reinforce the point)

    source

    • Zombie@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Aye that’s fair. “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others” and all that.

      Just to clarify though, owning your own car and stereo falls under personal property, not private property. See my comment here for a brief distinction of the two: feddit.uk/comment/18187961

      source

      • squaresinger@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Just to clarify though, owning your own car and stereo falls under personal property, not private property. See my comment here for a brief distinction of the two: feddit.uk/comment/18187961

        Yeah, ok, I see that distinction, it does make sense.

        source
• squaresinger@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Go, read what I wrote, then come back.

  source
• Genius@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  So if someone calls you a git, and you say “I’m not a TRUE git”, is that a no true scotsman too?

  source

  • Maalus@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    If someone gives you an example of a communist country and then you go “no no that’s not communism” when in fact yes, it was communism, because otherwise as you yourself said “no country in the last 2000 years was communist” then that’s the true scotsman.

    source

    • Genius@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I said YOUR country wasn’t communist in the last 2000 years. Many were. Like Catalonia. Like I told you.

      source