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TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

Neither of the two constructions you listed would result in a periodic table. You don’t this because you don’t actually know what a periodic table is. Try again.

To help you along, please explain to me: why the elements in the periodic table are ordered as they are? Or more readily, what determines the ordering of the periodic table? I’ll give you two huge hints, and a name to help you. Search the name Mendeleev, and orbital and proton.

Keep in mind, this argument I had was several proxy-arguments downstream of whether or not transwomen are women. So, be aware of what waters you’re treading into.

So your telling me that I need to be cautious of you derailing the conversation away from it’s original premise?

Isn’t the rejection of post-modernism like a very Jordan-Peterson–like thing to do?

And there we are.

No it’s a very Noam Chomskey thing to do. Jordon Peterson, like most fascists, draws largely on the principles of post-modernists. For all intents and purposes, he is one, in that he relies on the idea that truth and reality are relative to justify his arguments. I agree with Chomskey in his critiques of both post modernism and fascism, especially in their arbitrary use of language and sophistry to disguise the hollowness of their arguments.

That being said, i’ll be keeping you to the premise and the periodic table for this discussion. It need not go further.

If the ordering of the periodic table were arbitrary, it couldn’t be a periodic table. It is only a periodic table by this very reason. When ordering by orbital and atomic weight, Mendeleev not only came up with a diagram that effectively predicted all of the observable properties of the elements, but also predicted elements which were not yet known to human kind.

And therein lay the difference.

Imagine a person is coming up with a dictionary for English. And in a dream they came up with some alternative ordering. And in that alternative ordering, suddenly, they not only had a dictionary for English, cut also Farsi, and Cantonese. Every language became interpretable through this reordering. In fact, the ordering even predicted languages that were not yet known to the person who developed the order. But the order stated that they should be there, or at least be possible.

This is the difference.

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petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

Neither of the two constructions you listed would result in a periodic table.

I… didn’t say that they would? If you change the map, it’s obviously a different map. You’d call it “Metallica’s table of metals,” or something.

So your telling me that I need to be cautious of you derailing the conversation away from it’s original premise?

No… I just don’t think you realize how anti-intellectual you’re being.

i’ll be keeping you to the premise and the periodic table for this discussion. It need not go further.

Okay, dad. But, you were the one who brought up fascists.

Very rude, by the way.

Uh, to anyone reading, I guess: Look up Jordan Peterson’s wikipedia. He is not a fan of whatever his meat-addled brain thinks Post Modernism is.

If the ordering of the periodic table were arbitrary, it couldn’t be a periodic table.

It is arbitrarily a periodic table because the periodic table has utility. That utility is why we don’t arrange them a different way. This isn’t complicated.

If you want an example of different motivations: Do these periods tell you how beautiful each element is? Does beauty rise in each column and row? You might need a different map for that.

In fact, the ordering even predicted languages that were not yet known to the person who developed the order.

That would be very insightful. I would say we should arbitrarily prefer that ordering because of how useful it would be to us.

Or we could arbitrarily choose not to because just the one language is good enough, innit?

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- TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Im not being anti intellectual. I simply have no patience for frauds masquerading their metaphysics as philosophy.
  
  In the end you can’t argue the point on its merits and are just engaging in sophistry. So we’ll come back to the first: you don’t actually know what the periodic table of the elements is. You should stop pretending you have a point if you can’t make make it.
  
  If you don’t understand the difference between metaphysics and philosophy, its probably best you did neither.
  
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  - petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Aw, don’t be a sore loser.
    
    I can’t engage with your point on its merits because it’s not relevant to the argument that I’m making—it’s a complete non-sequitur.
    
    You want me to prove that the periodic table doesn’t predict undiscovered elements? What does that have to do with where people direct their effort and attention?
    
    This is why the tomato fruit/vegetable example is so useful: it’s about what facts are useful to whom. It actually has nothing to do with the periodic table at all, that just happens to be a particularly prickly thorn for stem majors.
    
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    TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    You are delusional if you think you “won” anything.
    
    The only thing you did was demonstrate that you are a vapid waste of time.
    
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