Comment on Welcome to Country booed by neo-Nazis at Melbourne Dawn Service
eureka@aussie.zone 1 week agoThe paradox is the result of the liberalist idea of some universal, general right to tolerance; that there’s some inherent moral or pragmatic obligation for us to uncritically tolerate everyone and everything possible.
There’s no moral nor pragmatic benefit to tolerating neo-nazis in a community. We don’t need some mental gymanastical paradox to excuse that material fact. Being a neo-nazi is a personal choice to be harmful antisocial scum, comparable to child abusers and billionaires, and the abstract liberalist idea that they automatically deserve freedom, liberty or tolerance in the first place is pointless and dangerous.
Whirlybird@aussie.zone 1 week ago
The biggest issue with this is that people that think like this tend to throw accusations like “neo-Nazi” out like lollies, at everyone that they disagree with about on certain things that are in no way “nazi-esque”.
Disliking the “welcome to country” does not make you a neo-Nazi. It is a divisive thing. It’s not some centuries old tradition, it was invented by Ernie Dingo in like the 90s. Many, many people think it’s completely pointless and irrelevant, and they’re entitled to that opinion just like you’re entitled to your opinion that it makes them racist. It doesn’t mean you’re automatically right and they’re wrong though.
In this specific situation - welcome to country at an ANZAC day ceremony - it is extremely debatable about its use. The ANZACs, 99% of who were white non-indigenous people, died defending this country. “Welcoming” their relatives to the very country is rightly seen as incredibly disrespectful by many. Without those ANZACs giving their life to defend this country that is being claimed is not theirs, the aboriginals might have been eradicated off the face of the earth.
Saying this is not racist. It’s not “neo-Nazi” views. You claim it is as an excuse to be intolerant towards those people. No matter how you try to sugar coat it, you are being intolerant.
nevetsg@aussie.zone 1 week ago
Wow that there is a lot of misinformation about Welcome to country. Take 2 minutes to read the Wikipedia and report back.
Whirlybird@aussie.zone 1 week ago
It’s definitely not misinformation, and Wikipedia is not a source. Try again, this time with an actual argument instead of essentially “nuh uh”.
nevetsg@aussie.zone 1 week ago
“It’s not some centuries old tradition, it was invented by Ernie Dingo in like the 90s” Misinformation, it is a modern take on traditional ceremony here is an investigation
Could you clarify your interpretation of the word of ‘Country’ in Welcome to Country? I could be reading your statement wrong but it appears you are defining it as the Country of Australia. As this is an incorrect interpretation in this context, I directed you to the Wikipedia which defines it better than anything I could type.
LowExperience2368@aussie.zone 1 week ago
Saw this comment on Facebook about AoCs in Early Childhood Education which sums up my opinion on this well.
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Whirlybird@aussie.zone 1 week ago
It’s just not necessary in my and many other people’s opinion, especially to do every day or at every single event. It is especially not necessary at an ANZAC ceremony that is about remembering the ultimate sacrifice that those men and women made fighting for this country - our country.
Doing it every day at things like daycare is a whole other issue. While you say it teaches respect, it can be argued that it is furthering racial divide, instilling into people who’s families have lived here for hundreds of years that it’s not their country and that they need to ask for permission to be here.
LowExperience2368@aussie.zone 1 week ago
An Acknowledgement of Country is not saying Australia isn’t everyone’s country, it’s just acknowledging the Traditional Owners of the land we’re on! It’s not saying we don’t have permission to be here as people with settler-colonial backgrounds, it’s just an ACKNOWLEDGEMENT.
Many people who grew up before the 2000s never even learnt about our history. We learn about history so we don’t fuck up like people in the past did, and commit violent atrocities against groups of people. It doesn’t have to be everywhere, as most places only do it during important events or gatherings (I agree, it doesn’t have to happen EVERY single time people gather). A simple statement or ceremony performed by an Elder, is the least we can do.
lodion@aussie.zone 1 week ago
Except these are views held by self identitifed neo-nazis. Just because non-nazis also hold that view, doesn’t change they fact they are neo-nazi views.
There will be no tolerance of nazis or their offensive beliefs here. To that end I’ve revoked your mod role. Further antagonism will result in a ban. I’m not interested in discussing this. If you continue to trolling while trying to give the impression of good faith discussion, you’ll be banned.
Whirlybird@aussie.zone 1 week ago
That the view is also held by “neo Nazis” does not mean it is a neo-Nazi view. If neo-Nazis believe the earth is round does that make anyone that thinks the earth is round a neo-Nazi? No.
I have no tolerance for Nazis. Not ever belief that a Nazi holds is an offensive belief, as I just showed. Saying that a welcome to country at the Anzac ceremony is disrespectful to the ANZACs who fought and died for this country is NOT a Nazi belief. That’s absolutely ridiculous.
Revoking my mod permission over this is beyond an abuse of power. Ban away.
zero_gravitas@aussie.zone 1 week ago
The hecklers in this case were straight-up neo-Nazis.
From the ABC article (www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-25/…/105215124)
This quote cited on his Wikipedia page (en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Hersant):
Whirlybird@aussie.zone 1 week ago
A heckler was. He wasn’t the only one, and he definitely isn’t the only one who found it incredibly disrespectful and insulting. One person doing X being a Y does not make everyone doing X a Y.
eureka@aussie.zone 1 week ago
These people literally call themselves neo-nazis.
No-one here is pretending that disagreeing with a position makes someone a Nazi. No-one here is throwing that label around. We’re talking about a specific political organisation who demand new members read Mein Kampf and Siege, imitate the language and symbolism of the historical NSDAP, and seek similar political policies. This action was an act of political propaganda for their White Nationalist organisation, in line with their ideological beliefs, in an attempt to recruit people closer to the mainstream.
Criticizing the welcome to country does not make someone a neo-nazi. Obviously not! In fact, even progressives are able to criticise it, I know some who do. The problem is that you went out of your way to trivialise the literal, loud-and-proud neo-nazis engaging in nazi propaganda, as an instinctive reaction to my comment, suggesting that I’m the problem here for calling an apple an apple. You don’t have to stick up for those neo-nazis in order to critisise the welcome to country. This isn’t a two-sided sport, not everything is some “left-right” culture war crap.
When you suggest that there aren’t real neo-nazis involved here, and imply that it’s ridiculous for us to point them out, you are enabling nazism, and Australia has no reason to tolerate that antisocial behaviour. So, please, don’t do that again.
Whirlybird@aussie.zone 1 week ago
Seems at least one admin of this instance disagrees lol. Just had moderator status taken off me for completely unrelated subs and threatened with a ban - which is coming whenever he sees my reply - because apparently thinking that doing a “welcome to country” at an ANZAC ceremony is disrespectful to the ANZACS is a verified and official Neo-Nazi belief, even if it’s shared by millions of non-neo-Nazis, and as such is worthy of stripping moderator status and threatening a ban lol.
Disgraceful. I bet he is absolutely on board with Albo now wanting to charge anyone who boos at a welcome to country with a hate crime and send them to jail for 5 years.
I never, not once, not even remotely suggested that there was no “real neo-nazi there”. I’m not an idiot, I know there are racist fucking dipshits here. I never said there wasn’t. I said that you can’t label everyone that booed or that thought the WtC was disrespectful as a neo-Nazi, which should not be a controversial comment.
It is apparently though. Any view that a neo-Nazi has is off limits, even if they share the same view as everyone else. Thinking Albanese has been a terrible PM is probably a neo-Nazi view that’s worthy of having mod status removed and threatened to be banned.
Lemmy really is speed running to 2020s reddit lol. Mod the ever loving fuck out of anyone that doesn’t toe the echo chamber line, label everything you don’t agree with as “misinformation”, and just ban everyone anonymously so it doesn’t show in the mod log who did it and use the intentionally vague “trolling, bad faith, misinformation” BS reason lol.
Thought this instances was at least a bit less ideologically captured and as an Aussie one I thought it wouldn’t be censor central, but seems like certain mods have just woken from their slumber of never commenting in years and now turning on the censorship. Seriously, check out their post/comment history.