Comment on Anon studies Buddhism

• Peruvian_Skies@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  How does a monotheistic religion whose prophet explicitly claimed to be part of the succession of Jewish prophets and to have “come to confirm” their teachings seem more like a polytheistic religion where gods aren’t known for using prophets to send messages to the people to you? Serious question. I’m intrigued.

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  • nickiwest@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    There are definitely elements of Christianity that mimic Greco-Roman (and other, older) mystery religions. Down to celebrating their deity’s birth at the same time and commemorating his death and rebirth by having followers share bread and wine.

    My favorite theory of the origin of Christianity is that it was a Jewish attempt to mimic the mystery religions that were popular at the beginning of the Common Era.

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    • Peruvian_Skies@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      The central point of mystery religions like the Eleusinian Mysteries is to cultivate the mystical experience. In judeochristian theology, that experience is considered sacrilegious. Some Jews let Jesus have it and became Christians, but nobody else is allowed. And the ones we call Jewish today didn’t even let that one guy have it.

      The similarities between Christianity and Greco-Roman mysticism are only surface-level and were a marketing ploy to gain followers. In its core, Christianity is still Judaism, just packaged for export. Hence why two thousand years later, Christians are still quoting the Old Testament to justify bigotry, even though they claim to be followers of the guy who said “love each other as I have loved you”.

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      • deathbird@mander.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        It feels to me like there’s an inconsistency between calling Christianity “Judaism for export”, and saying that it quotes the Old Testament for the purposes of bigotry. Or maybe it just feels antisemitic, even if not deliberately so. I mean it’s not like there isn’t bigotry in the New Testament, or radical acceptance in the Old.

        But also I don’t think you can argue that Christianity is a mere extension of Judaism and at the same time argue that it shouldn’t utilize Jewish text.

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  • deathbird@mander.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Jesus did not really claim to be part of succession of Jewish prophets based on the text in the New Testament. In the first three Gospels one could certainly describe him as a prophet, though by the fourth he was definitely being described as God. That in itself makes it far more like mithran cults than Judaism.

    And while a lot of what he taught was consistent with Jewish thought, a lot of it was contrary to Jewish thought and practice too, even explicitly so. And later writings by Paul, which for better or worse are canonical to the vast majority of Christians, pull the religion further away from Judaism.

    Now Greco Roman gods didn’t need prophets, because they had more formal roles that played similar functions: priests and oracles. Christianity on the other hand has prophets, saints, martyrs, and priests. Judaism on the other hand had priests, occasional prophets, then later rabbis. Notably Christian prophets prophesy about Jesus’s return or his goings on in heaven, while Jewish prophets were mostly telling people to get back into their covenant and stop marrying foreigners, usually promising freedom from whatever country was currently conquering them at the moment as a reward. Notably people claiming to be Jewish prophets do not get a lot of traction in Jewish communities these days, and have not for millennia.

    I mean you can’t deny that Jesus was Jewish, but he was an eccentric Jew, and the people who became his hangers on created a religion that did not look like the religion he mostly practiced. Certainly not one that looks like Judaism of today.

    Christianity says Jesus is god, uses multiple images of their God, but also multiple gods through their Trinity / triune God head work around, centers mostly around devotion and worship through novel praise rather than rule following and study. It often focuses on a personal relationship with the godhead. Judaism doesn’t do this stuff, but it’s not out of place in pagan traditions.

    I mean Jesus was literally conceived by the Holy Spirit entering into Mary, like Zeus going into countless mortal women to make half-God children. I mean I guess it wasn’t technically sex because that would be tasteless, but certainly all the Jewish prophets I can think of were conceived through two human people having sex.

    None of that’s to say there’s anything per se “wrong” with Christianity, but there’s a reason it exists alongside modern Judaism and not instead of it.

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    • Peruvian_Skies@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Those are all valid points. Still, Christian Cosmology is the same as Jewish Cosmology: the world as an artifact created and ruled by a single all-knowing monarch who is in essence different and separate from it. And Jesus did define himself as coming to confirm the teachings of Judaism e.g. in Matthew 5:17, although in practice his teachings were very different - hence Christianity not being considered a Jewish sect but a separate religion. And because of this claim he made, the Jewish scriptures were received into Christianity, bringing along several beliefs that simply have nothing to do with anything Jesus ever thought was worth mentioning and several more which directly contradict his teachings. So there is of course this powerful connection between the two that can’t really be severed.

      As for “multiple gods through the Trinity”, I wouldn’t put it like that exactly. Rather than being similar to Greco-Roman polytheism, the doctrine of the Trinity seems to me closer to the Hindu Trinity of the Godhead (Brahman, Vishnu and Shiva). Hinduism is of course polytheistic but these three gods in particular are not separate persons but different aspect of the same entity that manifest in different circumstances. A crude analogy would be if a person adopted one identity at work, another one at home with their family and another one while asleep. It’s still the same person, but fulfilling different roles. So it is with the Holy Trinity of Christianity. Hence what Paul said in Philippians 2:5-8:

      In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death — even death on a cross!

      In any case, this is a very interest8ng discussion.

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