Comment on [deleted]
HardlightCereal@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Israeli people and Palestinian people both have a legitimate claim to live in the land surrounding Jerusalem. Palestinians are mostly muslim, and there are other muslim places to live. Israeli people are mostly jewish, and there are no other jewish places to live. That said, religion isn’t ethnicity. Palestinians may be the same religion as other muslims, but they’re not the same race. Just like black americans are mostly christian, but that doesn’t mean they’re the same race as white americans. Israeli people can’t be guaranteed fair treatment elsewhere. Palestinian people have a right to live in their homes.
Israeli and Palestianian people both have a valid and important need to live in the holy land. So the simple solution is, they should both live there. That’s a solution supported by a lot of Isreali and Palestinian people. But it’s not a solution supported by the government of Israel. The government of Israel wants political control over the whole region, and to be able to legally and systemically put jews first.
I don’t think the correct answer is “support” or “don’t support”, because that’s too broad. I think the correct answer is to support the people’s rights, and support the government’s desire for safety for its people, but not to support the government’s treatment of palestinians.
That’s a solution supported by a lot of Isreali and Palestinian people. But it’s not a solution supported by the government of Israel. The government of Israel wants political control over the whole region, and to be able to legally and systemically put jews first.
Bro/sis you took the words off my tongue.
Nonbinary sib.
I don’t think religion is just a justification for owning any land. That’s kind of a backwards take. Regressive, really.
So you’re saying disband both governments, replace with an international peace keeping force. That actually makes sense.
Also a lot of both Jews and Arabs just hate the other side so it’s not really the govt problem here.
fkn@lemmy.world 1 year ago
This is such a weird stance. What even is this position that is nonchalantly thrown into the argument as if it even matters.
HardlightCereal@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It’s the position of zionists. I threw it in for completeness, and added a counterargument. If you want me to explain their position more thoroughly, zionists believe that Jewish safety can only be guaranteed by Jewish independence. In any democracy, minorities are only protected as long as the majority vote for their interests. Zionists desire a state with a jewish majority, to guarantee safety. I don’t believe in states because I’m an anarchist, but I empathise with wanting the protection of a state.
fkn@lemmy.world 1 year ago
In the United States, I find the Zionist argument to mostly be a racist Christian push to remove Jews from the US.
I recognize that people may believe it without that racism… But it’s just a crazy argument to me… And I think the way you originally presented it is the way that is normalized by extreme Christian organizations in the US which is why I called it out.
HardlightCereal@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I like to fight against my opponent’s strongest position. If I were to ignore my opponent’s best arguments, then those I educate could change their minds later when they run into those arguments. If I acknowledge their best argument and refute it, then there’s nothing more they can do in the debate. OP didn’t know the first thing about Israel when I made that first comment. They ought to know why Israel thinks it’s in the right. If I say Israel are bad and don’t explain why they’re being bad, then I’m not properly educating OP. Every hateful or evil group in the world has some kind of reason they think they’re in the right. Understanding these reasons is essential.