Comment on To save the superhero movie, we need to bring back themes

• wjrii@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Maybe the themes in a Marvel movie will be more universal and rather broadly drawn, but to avoid overstaying their welcome with a rote and repetitive “peril-catharis” cycle, the action needs to be in service to something compelling. Otherwise, it just sort of sputters to the finish line because ultimately we’ve seen the stories before. To the extent he’s not just talking out of his ass, King’s describing a workflow, not a philosophy.

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  • adam_y@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Hang on, are we arguing for the same thing? That story, and more importantly, compelling story, is what is needed?

    I was just using king as an example of someone who crafts stories… Whether they are page-turners or not, that compel audiences.

    My problem with Marvel films is that they are stale, narratively, and as such the only thing that can fix them is decent writing that isn’t in the service of “franchise”.

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    • wjrii@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      I think we definitely want the same thing, at least.

      I’m just backing up the (now absent, LOL) person you originally replied to. I think you can – and in Marvel’s case maybe you should, since they are no longer drawing on zeitgeisty, recognizable versions of their comics characters – think about what you want the story to mean at least as early as you do the events that happen in it. King is a talented writer, no two ways about it, but I don’t think you necessarily doom a script to be bad by starting with something like, “I want to tell a story about dealing with the conflict between who we wish we were and what life made us into.”

      I reckon that for King, setting events into motion and figuring out the right traits to get characters through them (or to their natural stopping place), or what themes give those particular events meaning, that works for him. If they want to have him write the next Avengers movie, I’d be all for it, LOL. I just don’t think his approach is the only way to go about it.

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      • adam_y@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Yes, I totally agree and I think you’ve hit on something subtle but really important…

        The difference between starting to make a work (of art, if we are lucky) with an intent for it to be about something and telling people a work is about something.

        I think the intent is important. Marvel’s latest round of press includes them telling us how the new Captain America is about modern politics but the plot really doesn’t hold that up beyond some fairly blunt motifs. Ultimately, it feels as if it about a struggling studio, if that is a theme.

        I guess the context is really important… And it highlights the slippery thing between thematics and meaning. Take a film like Stalker where the plot is arguably slightly, but the characterisation and the context give rise to meaning through the themes… It would be a different film if Tarkovsky had tried to market it as being about politics and Chernobyl.

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