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Comment on Should parents be allowed to euthanize their children if they have a diagnosis that just isn't worth dealing with?

Worx@lemmynsfw.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

That’s called “eugenics”, and fuck no. Historically speaking, the Nazis were a huge fan of eugenics and that was their defining bad trait. Governments cannot allow their citizens to murder freely just because they don’t think someone else’s life is worth living.

(I know a lot of countries dabbled in eugenics around that time, but they were also morally abhorrent to do so, and I’m not a historian to go into more detail)

Since we’re talking about “should”, rather than the world as it exists today, parents should consider if they can care for a disabled child before they get pregnant. The government or community should have a safety net in place for those children who can’t (or won’t) be cared for at home, and it should be easy to access and high quality. Finally, in my opinion, it should be possible for adults to opt out of life painlessly if they so choose, once they have had a chance to experience a full life and decide it isn’t for them.

I’m sorry that you’ve had such bad experiences, but allowing parents to kill their children legally is not the answer.

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ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Fun fact the Nazis learned it from Americans. They didn’t just come up with it. It was way more popular in America first.

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- Worx@lemmynsfw.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Yep, hence my comment about other countries doing it also.
  
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  - ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Missed that
    
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- PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  The sad part is - this time they’ll hail that time period as just making ‘Murica great the first time.
  
  We really are a shithole country at times.
  
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  - ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Lol
    
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JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Ah yes, ‘because the Nazis did it it’s bad’. You should explain why it’s had for its own sake. The Nazis had bad criteria, such as killing people for being ethnically Jewish or LGBT+, and didn’t factor consent of the person into it. But if the person consents to dying because they recognise their life is so bad, and it’s actually bad in an unfixable way, eg debilitated disability, what is morally wrong with that?

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- Worx@lemmynsfw.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Eugenics doesn’t solely kill disabled people (who, by the way, were also targeted by Nazis), it’s about improving humanity by removing any humans who are undesirable. If you take that first step in removing undesirable disabled people, it’s an easy step to removing undesirable mentally ill people, queer people (because being gay or trans is often considered a mental illness), Jewish people, etc.
  
  It sounds like I’m making a slippery slope argument, and I am to a certain extent. But there’s also a very famous poem about this - “First they came…”
  
  Consent is not usually part of eugenics programs, and the original post was talking about killing children who definitionally can’t consent to such a big decision. This is why we don’t let children buy houses, surgically transition gender, or have sex with adults. And I did specifically mention that painless suicide is an option that I believe a truly free society should provide - for adults.
  
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  - Worx@lemmynsfw.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I realise I didn’t explain why it’s bad for its own sake, as I was asked to… but seriously, murder is wrong whether it’s for eugenics reasons or just because you like killing. Do I have to explain that?
    
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  - JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    A very thoughtful and considered response. I’d agree that if consent is not a factor, that, in all but some extreme cases (someone in a vegatitive state experiencing extreme suffering, for example), you should not kill someone without consent. I would disagree that only >18 year olds can give informed consent, it is an arbitrary age that is different in many countries and cultures. Perhaps an individual perspective rather than a flat cut off age would be more appropriate.
    
    I apologise for implying that I was not aware disabled people were also killed by the Nazis, and well as Roma and Sinti, political dissidents, etc
    
    I think we agree that assisted suicide should be able for the people who consent, it’s just a matter of the details of who exactly can consent.
    
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    Worx@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
    
    A very thoughtful and considered response.
    
    Thank you :)
    
    I would disagree that only >18 year olds can give informed consent
    
    No disagreement needed, because that’s not what I said. I specifically said “children” because like you, I think that 18 is an arbitrary age
    
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- Deestan@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  You should explain why it’s had for its own sake.
  
  He said “this is eugenics”, which is such an extensively discussed and well documented term that the word itself is sufficient explanation of why it’s bad.
  
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