Prouvaire
@Prouvaire@kbin.social
Addicted to love. Flower cultivator, flute player, verse maker. Usually delicate, but at times masculine. Well read, even to erudition. Almost an orientalist.
- Comment on [Weekly thread] What have you been watching lately? 11 months ago:
-For All Mankind season 4 - along with House of the Dragon my favourite show currently in production
- Downton Abbey New York season 2 - comfort food of sorts, populated with amazing theatre and musical theatre talent
- New Frasier about the old Frasier Crane - still finding its feet, but it took the old Frasier about the younger Frasier Crane a year or so to do the same
- Gen V - decent spin off
- Loki season 2 - satisfying finale
- The Creator - not as good as I was hoping it would be
- Comment on Thoughts on fixing production mistakes in remasters? 11 months ago:
That Bob Justman memo reminded me how much fun they had making TOS (as well as working long and hard of course). Perhaps my favourite is the memo chain Justman started about Vulcan proper names.
Re fixing mistakes: I guess I don't have a problem with it as long as the mistakes are trivial, are clearly errors, and the original version remains available. What constitutes a "trivial error" of course can be up for debate. Correcting a background audio cue - sure, why not? Changing early TOS references of "Vulcanians" to "Vulcans" - definitely not.
- Comment on ‘The Marvels’ Meltdown: Disney MCU Seeing Lowest B.O. Opening Ever At $47M+ 11 months ago:
I honestly believe Captain Marvel was the start of the downfall of Marvel. Not because of the cast, sex, or anything along those lines. I believe they over did the character. They made her way to damn strong which made all the other characters pointless. Remember when a literal god, the most advanced mech, and the super soldier with all the stats struggled with Thanos? Then Cpt Marvel swoops in destroys a couple of ships and takes one on the chin like nothing, that was the moment.
I don't understand this criticism at all.
First of all, it was Wanda who had Thanos almost beaten, which is why he had his ship fire on the ground. So Wanda presented a greater threat to him than Captain Marvel did; so great a threat that he was willing to sacrifice his entire army to try to take her out. I think it was Feige who said, around the time of Endgame or maybe shortly thereafter, that Wanda was the most powerful character in the MCU. But people don't criticise Wanda for being overpowered and making all the other characters pointless.
Second of all, while Danvers did take down one ship (not two, not that it makes a difference), they could have found ways for several other characters to do the same (eg Doctor Strange via illusions, Wanda or Thor through sheer power, Iron Man through nanotech magic) - they just wanted Captain Marvel to make a big entrance because she had been teased at the end of Infinity War (and then also in her own movie prior to Endgame), and we hadn't really seen her manifest her full power earlier in Endgame.
But the whole point of that her late intervention in the final fight was that Captain Marvel was NOT the overpowered deus ex machina that many fans falsely deride her to be. Because in a one-on-one fight with Thanos, Thanos disposes of her easily - they trade a few punches, he throws her into the ground. She comes back, and he punches her out of frame and out of the film (until the epilogue). The final fight came down to Captain America, Thor and of course Iron Man, which it was always going to - those being the three keystone Avengers of the MCU.
That's also why all the founding members of the Avengers went unsnapped at the end of Infinity War. Markus and McFeely and the Russos knew they were making an Avengers movie, not a Captain Marvel movie. Markus and McFeely knew that fans would have felt rightfully betrayed if a character, who had only been introduced to the MCU a year or so before, had swooped in and saved the day after a decade-long build up. So they made sure she didn't. But more fool them - they still cop the same criticism.
And I say all this as someone who thinks that both Captain Marvel movies (and most of Larson's performances in the MCU) have been decidedly mediocre, though not for any reasons related to her power level.
- Comment on Who's your favourite character? 11 months ago:
Spock.
The why should be obvious, but this video goes some way to explaining it.
- Comment on After decades lost, Star Trek’s original Enterprise model may have been found 11 months ago:
Great news! The Matt Jefferies Enterprise is my second-favourite incarnation of the Enterprise (after the TMP refit), although I prefer the post-pilot version with the balls at the back of the nacelles rather than the grilles.
- Comment on After decades lost, Star Trek’s original Enterprise model may have been found 11 months ago:
But I don't have a problem with it. I'm actually very glad the model has been found cause it's an absolutely iconic item, and hope it's on its way to Rod Roddenberry.
- Comment on After decades lost, Star Trek’s original Enterprise model may have been found 11 months ago:
No it wasn’t, it was genes and it sat on his desk before being loaned out to the studio
It was loaned out in the run-up to Star Trek The Motion Picture. It was not loaned to the studio at the time of production of the original series. I'm talking about the ownership of the model back in 1964, not 1978/79.
No the model was made before any production, again documented and linked for source.
Filming of the first scene of "The Cage" took place on 24 or 27 November 1964 (accounts vary).
The 3-foot model was commissioned from Richard Datin on 4 November 1964. He received the blueprints on 7 or 8 November 1964. An in-progress version was presented to Roddenberry on 15 November 1964, with Roddenberry apparently requesting a number of changes, ie "more detail". The model was delivered to Roddenberry on 14 December 1964 while "The Cage" was being filmed in Culver City.
Therefore the model was made during production, not before.
Source for most of these dates: http://www.shawcomputing.net/resources/shaw/1701-33-inch.html
And even if the model was made before production of "The Cage" started, it doesn't negate my point, which is that the model would almost certainly have been paid for, and therefore owned, by Desilu or Norway as it was clearly a production/pre-production expense. It was used consistently throughout the run of the show, and was even modified to more closely resemble the 11-foot model. I find it inconceivable that Roddenberry would have paid for it out of his own, personal, pocket.
Again it’s documented, you’re simply making things up.
I'm not making things up, I'm speculating based on what I know of business and Roddenberry himself. Roddenberry was known to appropriate items that were owned by the studio for his personal benefit, eg when he took film clippings after the show was cancelled and sold them through his private business Lincoln Enterprises.
Roddenberry merely stating "I've owned it since the Desilu days" in a letter doesn't necessarily make it so. Note I'm not claiming he didn't own it, I'm raising it as an academic possibility. And, as I said, I have no problems at all with the model going back to the Roddenberry family once it's been recovered.
- Comment on After decades lost, Star Trek’s original Enterprise model may have been found 11 months ago:
@CCMan1701A has a point. The model was built for production purposes, so it would have almost certainly been paid for - and therefore owned - by either by Desilu Studios or Norway Corporation (aka Norway Productions) depending on how the accounting was set up back in 1964. So unless Desilu/Norway sold or gifted the model to Roddenberry at some point, ie formally passed title to him, technically it would still be the property of the original corporate owner.
What I think quite possible though is that after TOS was cancelled Roddenberry took possession of a bunch of production assets nobody ever thought would have any value. Star Trek, after all, was a failed show. IIRC it was known that he used to do stuff like that, eg selling off merchandise to fans that - technically - he didn't own. It's just that nobody really cared too much back then.
Now as it so happens, Norway was actually Roddenberry's production company, but technically that doesn't matter, as there's a legal distinction between a corporation you own on the one hand, and you as an individual on the other. That's the whole purpose of setting up businesses as separate legal entities. So even if the model was originally purchased by and owned by Norway (as opposed to Desilu, which was sold to Paramount during the show's run) then Norway (Roddenberry's company) would still have needed to pass ownership to Gene Roddenberry the individual (via a gift or sale) in order for Majel Roddenberry's statement that "it was Gene's" to be strictly true. Of course, that would have been a cinch to do: Roddenberry, as owner/executive of Norway, simply sells or gives the model to Roddenberry the individual.
It's possible that this happened, ie that Desilu or Norway sold or gifted the model to Roddenberry, but it's also possible (especially if the model was owned by Desilu/Paramount) that he merely ended up with it, and that nobody questioned his legal right to it in the years since.
Personally, regardless of whether technically (ie from a legal or accounting perspective) Roddenberry did or did not own the model, I fully understand that Rod Roddenberry would be interested in recovering this seminal piece of Star Trek memorabilia, and I wouldn't have any issues if it stayed in the Roddenberry family or was gifted to an institution like the Smithsonian.
- Comment on What's the best dialogue in your opinion? 11 months ago:
My favourite deadpan funny line delivery of Nimoy's is this exchange from The Wrath of Khan:
Kirk: I would not presume to debate you.
Spock: That is wise. - Comment on What's the best dialogue in your opinion? 11 months ago:
"I love Italian. And so do you." "Yes." My favourite bit in TVH.
- Comment on Just some fun size comparisons 11 months ago:
name any show other than Lower Decks or Strange New Worlds that had a good first couple seasons
TOS. 😎
- Comment on Warp Five: Lower Decks' Mike McMahan Details Season 4's Big Beats So Far 11 months ago:
I just wanted to play to into Rom’s savviness and Leeta’s savviness. What did he pick up from his brother and what did he leave behind?
- Comment on Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Lower Decks | 4x09 "The Inner Fight" 1 year ago:
I think the official explanation is that they thought about it and judged Locarno as irredeemable - "a bad guy in the guise of a good guy" whereas Paris was supposed to be "a good guy in the guise of a bad guy". But I tend to agree that money was the determining factor, as it so often is.
- Comment on Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Lower Decks | 4x09 "The Inner Fight" 1 year ago:
Great to have Robbie McDunc back as Locarno as well. If nothing else this may finally kill the urban myth that they didn’t use Locarno in Voyager due to royalties once and for all.
I don't understand the reasoning here. Why would Locarno's return for one or two episodes kill the theory that Paramount didn't want to pay Moore and Shankar ongoing royalties for seven years?
- Comment on Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Lower Decks | 4x09 "The Inner Fight" 1 year ago:
Great to have Robbie McDunc back as Locarno as well. If nothing else this may finally kill the urban myth that they didn’t use Locarno in Voyager due to royalties once and for all.
I don't understand the reasoning here. Why would Locarno's return for one or two episodes kill the theory that Paramount didn't want to pay Moore and Shankar ongoing royalties for seven years?
- Comment on Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Lower Decks | 4x09 "The Inner Fight" 1 year ago:
Her whole pivot into even-more-than-normal overtly reckless behavior three episodes after the supposed precipitating event felt very abrupt, and the scene where she talks it over and appears to resolve her issues with Ma’ah felt rushed, almost forced.
Agreed. It's tricky injecting serious notes into an all-out sitcom and I'm not sure it worked as well this episode as it might have.
The Sito Jaxa makes reasonable sense as a backstory component, but I found it distracting and it does add to the “small universe” syndrome that expanding IPs risk falling into
Again, agreed. Lower Decks has as much (more even) blatant fan service as Picard season 3, although because it is a comedy I find it more forgivable and less grating than I did in the other show. That said, "Lower Decks" is my favourite TNG episode, so appreciated the Sito Jaxa callback for that reason (and it was a nice way of connecting this series and the episode it was named after). As long as they're not foreshadowing her return. That would be very very bad. They thought about bringing her back on DS9 but wisely refrained. Keep your hands off Sito Jaxa's corpse McMahan!!
- Comment on Play “DECKD,” The Free Weekly ‘Star Trek: Lower Decks’ Word Game 1 year ago:
- Comment on Whats your favorite Star Trek season? 1 year ago:
DS9, VOY, ENT and arguably even TNG, all helped establish the "rule" that it takes Star Trek shows (after TOS) three seasons to get good. As much as I personally liked Kes as a character, there's no denying the show took a step up after Seven of Nine was introduced. "Scorpion", "Year of Hell" and "Living Witness" are all really good episodes.
- Comment on Whats your favorite Star Trek season? 1 year ago:
ENT s2 was so bland it was the first and only time I ever gave up on a Star Trek show, so bored out of my mind was I. Boring boring boring. Except for "Carbon Creek" - that episode is a gem.
(I did force myself to catch up on season 2 after I decided to start watching ENT again in season 3.)
In other words... yes, you're weird. But, you know, IDIC and all that. 😉
- Comment on Whats your favorite Star Trek season? 1 year ago:
B5 season 5? An interesting choice. It's been quite a few years since I've seen Babylon 5, but as I recall season 5 suffered from JMS having to write a lot of his season 5 material into season 4, as he didn't know if the show would be renewed. As a result season 5 ended up being quite lopsided, with storylines like the telepath arc dragging out longer than they should have been. I think B5 was at its peak somewhere in seasons 2, 3 and 4.
- Comment on Whats your favorite Star Trek season? 1 year ago:
Personally I thought season 2 was stronger. I found only two episodes in season 1 to be especially memorable: "Spock Amok" and particularly "A Quality of Mercy" (which I do think has been the finest episode of the Kurtzman era). Season 2 had four strong episodes IMO - "Charades", "Those Old Scientists", "Under the Cloak of War" and "Subspace Rhapsody". 4 out of 10 is a good percentage, but - as you point out - it should be easier to produce a higher proportion of strong episodes in a 10-episode season as opposed to a 24-29 episode season.
SNW wins brownie points for doing a live action / animation cross-over episode and a musical, but loses some for playing it safe in all other respects. It's the most overtly "conventionally Trek" modern show (after maybe PIC season 3 which was pure fan service with little interesting about it). Granted, what SNW does, it does with confidence and some measure of flair.
- Comment on Whats your favorite Star Trek season? 1 year ago:
Without giving it too much thought, I'd say DS9 season 6 or TOS season 1, with DS9 season 4 also being a contender.
DS9 season 6 opened with the franchise's first example of long-form storytelling, with "Rocks and Shoals" being a standout episode in that arc. It also gave us classics like "Far Beyond the Stars" and "In the Pale Moonlight". Overall the episodes were solid with few duds.
Similarly season 4 also opened strongly, with four of the first five episodes all being strong, with "The Visitor" among the franchise's best ever instalments and "Rejoined" also being very very good. ("Indiscretion" isn't as good as the first three or fifth episode.) It also features "Homefront"/"Paradise Lost". Granted, the second half of season 4 probably isn't quite as strong as the first half.
TOS season 1 established so much of the template of what Star Trek is, and many of the episodes still hold up very well even close to 60 years later, including "The Cage"/"The Menagerie", "Where No Man Has Gone Before", "Balance of Terror", "The Galileo Seven", "Space Seed", "The Devil in the Dark" and, of course, "City on the Edge of Forever".
ENT season 4 definitely gets the prize for "most improved" season. (Yes, I have seen PIC season 3, but don't rate it as highly as most people.)
PRO season 1 gets the prize for best debut season after TOS. I think it did a great job in putting a new spin on the franchise while telling good, family-friendly stories that developed both plot and characters.
- Comment on Star Trek: very Short Treks | "Holiday Party" 1 year ago:
That seems like such an insanely weird decision to make.
It could have also been a mistake. The "Ephraim and Dot" Short Trek made a similar continuity booboo when they gave the TOS-era Enterprise the "NCC 1701-A" naval construction code.
- Comment on Canon Connections: Lower Decks 4x01 - Twovix 1 year ago:
Also, I do think it would have been more interesting to proceed with Tuvix from a storytelling point of view. Obviously that doesn’t work great when you have actors contracted for multiple seasons
I was okay with Tuvix being split back apart eventually, but if VOY had fully committed to the serialised nature of its premise I would have loved to have seen Tuvix hang around for, say, 5-10 episodes first. They could still have had Neelix and Tuvok appear in the odd flashback or as holo constructs or something to justify their inclusion in the opening credits. Or, to be even more daring, not have them appear at all and removed Ethan Philips and Tim Russ from the credits for a while, although I don't think this sort of credit manipulation was permitted in the mid-90s. It would have made the impact of killing Tuvix even greater.
They never speak of it again. Probably because Janeway threatened to murder anyone on the ship who brings it up.
And that's what makes her the highly effective officer that she is. :-D
I think that after the season of LDS is done, while we’re waiting Disco season five, I’ll try and do some Non-Canon Connections.
Looking forward to that.
- Comment on Canon Connections: Lower Decks 4x01 - Twovix 1 year ago:
Fair point. It's been a few days since I saw the episode, so didn't recall the nuances.
I did think it was a bit of a shame that one of Trek's most powerful ethical quandaries got so easily and blithely technobabbled away, but such is the nature of comedy. And VOY did pretty much the same thing to the Borg, so turnabout is fair play I suppose.
And speaking of inside remains as a result of transporter accidents, will you do these canon connections posts for the Very Short Treks, (even if they themselves have been declared non-canonical)?
- Comment on Play “DECKD,” The Free Weekly ‘Star Trek: Lower Decks’ Word Game 1 year ago:
DECKD WK 1, EP 1 & 2
Solved in 3⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪
⚪⚪⚪🟢⚪
🟢🟢🟢🟢🟢https://www.playparamountplus.com/DECKD
Too used to playing Wordle rules,which is a disadvantage here.
- Comment on Canon Connections: 4x02 - I Have No Bones Yet I Must Flee 1 year ago:
Boimler has his Starfleet recruitment poster seen in “Those Old Scientists”, but Number One’s face is obscured every time it’s on screen.
I'm 99% sure they were just being subtle (which I like), but 1% of me wonders if there's something in the actors', in this case Rebecca Romijn's, contract that says they have to be compensated if their likeness is used, even a cartoon likeness. And if so, sometimes the budget doesn't quite stretch far enough.
- Comment on Star Trek: very Short Treks | "Holiday Party" 1 year ago:
This episode reminded me of what Mel Brooks purportedly said: "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open manhole and die."
Also, Spork was one of the Vulcan proper names submitted by Bob Justman to Gene Roddenberry during the show's production: https://news.lettersofnote.com/p/star-trek-planet-vulcan-proper-names
- Comment on Canon Connections: Lower Decks 4x01 - Twovix 1 year ago:
T’Lyn is able to combine all the Tuvixed beings into one creature, which is then described by Tendi as a “Non-sentient blob of meat,” handily circumventing the ethical dilemma presented by “Tuvix”.
It really doesn't. It's like you lobotomising someone before you suffocate them with a pillow. Sure you turned the non-sentient blob of meat back into their constituent parts, but you're the one who created the non-sentient blobs from a bunch of sentient beings.
- Comment on [deleted] 1 year ago:
I own all (I think) of the TOS era Bantam novels and short story collections from way back (though some in their UK Corgi editions), and just about all of the early Pocket novels (the first 50 or so); as well as a fairly comprehensive selection of early non-fiction books, including some fairly obscure ones like The Making of the Trek Conventions by Joan Winston, Letters to Star Trek by Susan Sackett and Star Trek Intragalactic Puzzles by James Razzi.