Telegram is indistinguishable from an FSB honeypot

Submitted ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨rysiek@szmer.info⁩ to ⁨technology@beehaw.org⁩

Investigation by investigative journalism outlet IStories (EN version by OCCRP) shows that Telegram uses a single, FSB-linked company as their infrastructure provider globally.

Telegram’s MTProto protocol also requires a cleartext identifier to be prepended to all client-server messages.

Combined, these two choices by Telegram make it into a surveillance tool.

I am quoted in the IStories story. I also did packet captures, and I dive into the nitty-gritty technical details on my blog.

Packet captures and MTProto deobfuscation library I wrote linked therein so that others can retrace my steps and check my work.

source

Comments

Sort:hotnew top

rysiek@szmer.info ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Also, AMA I guess.

source
- dfyx@lemmy.helios42.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  What would you recommend as an alternative for the general non-technical population?
  
  source
  - rysiek@szmer.info ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    For the internet messenger functionality that would be Signal.
    
    For other things (channels, mostly), anything that does not pretend to be end-to-end encrypted when it is not. A website with an RSS feed would be one trivial choice for channels that are open to anyone. Public communication like that has no business going through “platforms”.
    
    source
- sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  No questions from me, just wanna say:
  
  Excellent goddamned work.
  
  source
- SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  No questions. Hats off. Thank you for your service, it always seemed like a honeypot to me.
  
  source
  - rysiek@szmer.info ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Thank you!
    
    source
- FarceOfWill@infosec.pub ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  There were reports (claims I suppose) that the fsb were using telegram to organise the stochastic gig job sabotage across Europe.
  
  Joining a neo fash telegram group, pretending to be a rich neo fash who wants to help the cause but not risk themselves and paying people for putting up posters, damaging equipment etc.
  
  Does what has been found here shed any more light on that? I’d guess it would allow them to find these groups to target them very easily? That was the bit I couldn’t quite understand from the original report, if so this all makes more sense.
  
  source
  - rysiek@szmer.info ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    
    There were reports (claims I suppose) that the fsb were using telegram to organise the stochastic gig job sabotage across Europe
    
    No no, reports: www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/…/ar-AA1xshqO
    
    Does what has been found here shed any more light on that?
    
    Not really/not directly, I would say. What you are describing is FSB using Telegram for recruitment. That does not require network-level observability and surveillance. That’s a different “feature”, so to speak.
    
    source
    -> View More Comments
- ideonek@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Any advice for people that used it in the past? After reading the article, my understanding is that what was sent in "private chat" was in fact encrypted (for the most part) and can be considered secured (to the degree - something is off and, maybe we didn't find out yet, how the encryption is compromised). But it would wise to treat all other conversations as something that is compromised. Is this a fair summary?
  
  source
  - rysiek@szmer.info ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    
    After reading the article, my understanding is that what was sent in “private chat” was in fact encrypted (for the most part) and can be considered secured (to the degree - something is off and, maybe we didn’t find out yet, how the encryption is compromised).
    
    “Secret Chats”, but otherwise spot-on, yes.
    
    I am making a point of clarifying here because Telegram thrives on ambiguity. “Private chat” might mean anything in that system. “Secret Chat” is a specific feature that almost nobody uses but gives Telegram cover to claim they do end-to-end encryption.
    
    But it would wise to treat all other conversations as something that is compromised. Is this a fair summary?
    
    Yes, that’s what I would say.
    
    Telegram has access to everything that is not a “Secret Chat”. They are responding to data requests. It’s unclear what they include in these responses. They are also linked to FSB, through the same Vedeneev guy that owned GNM (the infrastructure provider).
    
    source
    -> View More Comments
Five@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Telegram is used by anti-Putin resistance groups like BOAK and Resistance Committee. They advertise channels that are relatively easy for anyone to join without needing privileged access. As long as they’re not using Russian-purchased sims to manage and post to the channels, how does this change their security model going forward?

source
- rysiek@szmer.info ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  As long as they’re not using Russian-purchased sims to manage and post to the channels, how does this change their security model going forward?
  
  If IStories’ reporting on GNM’s connection to FSB and GNM’s access to Telegram’s traffic is correct – and I have no reason to believe otherwise, this has gone through two rounds of fact-checking and these are people who had been sued for “defamation” in the most journalist-hostile, oligarch-friendly jurisdiction in the world (UK) and have repeatedly won – then this means the threat model now includes the FSB potentially being able to:
  
  figure out where a user is in the world just by observing their Telegram network traffic, live or close to live;
  
  with some additional analysis, based on timing and packet sizes correlation, probably figure out who that user is communicating via Telegram.
  
  Both of these globally, regardless of what SIM card was used to register any of accounts involved, and without having to ask Telegram for any data.
  
  I don’t know if FSB is actually using this capability, and to what extent, and against whom. But based on IStories’ reporting and on my own packet captures analysis it is entirely possible for them to do so if they choose to.
  
  source
  - Five@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    For those organizations like BOAK and Resistance Committee, Telegram functions as a home page for making public announcements. It is superior to having a website because it can’t be DDOS’d, has fewer attack surfaces that the organization has to be responsible to keep secure, doesn’t have ICANN WHOIS reporting, or need someone’s credit card on file. It’s also free and has the network effect of Telegram’s existing popularity.
    
    Do you think that Telegram can continue to be used for this purpose while taking additional security precautions? Or do you think the risk is too great, and no amount of precautions can justify using the service?
    
    source
    -> View More Comments
30p87@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
I hate how 50% of ‘news’ is literally like “1 equals 1” to me. It’s fucking obvious.

source
- ideonek@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Well, it was obvious to you. I'm a casual user, who tries to "do his best" and consider himself "somewhat informed" - obviously not by your standard. It was all news to me, and I find tremendous value in this article.
  
  source
  - rysiek@szmer.info ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Thank you, that means a lot. For people working in information security it really feels sometimes that a). a lot of stuff is obvious, b). people just don’t listen and don’t care.
    
    Your comment shows how incorrect this is. That really helps keep motivated.
    
    source
    -> View More Comments
- rysiek@szmer.info ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I know, right? That’s why investigative journalism is such a thankless, frustrating job. You need to prove beyond any doubt things that are often pretty obviously true.
  
  Roman Anin and the rest of the IStories team did an absolutely amazing job. Found court documents going years back. Dug up signed statements and contracts. They did something nobody in the infosec community seemed to have done: actually looked at the IP addresses used by Telegram and followed that lead to its logical conclusion. And then published all of the receipts!
  
  And still people will say this is “unsubstantiated” or find other ways to wave this off.
  
  source
adry@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
I hate it when I don't know an acronym, but this one is particularly hurtful to my brain since everyone is saying "yeah, that link to the FSB was obvious glad someone demonstrated it." So... I will just assume FSB=KGB and be done.

Anyway, most of our privacy "war fronts" are honeypots in one way or another. Take for example Tor network (high number of exit nodes are controlled). Except those apps or protocols that are truly decentralized (e.g. OMEMO in XMPP), these are good. But then again, they lag behind to our standards of "normal" Internet that connects us to the world, outside of our tiny circles of nerds.

Now, the thing with honeypots, is that they are there to catch some specific type of fly. If you were to use their network to take advantage of the features for anything that the "predator" behind doesn't care, you're fine. So, I will keep using Telegram for the memes and piracy channels...

From an OPSec perspective this is important news nonetheless and I will keep it in mind.

source
- rysiek@szmer.info ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  
  I hate it when I don’t know an acronym, but this one is particularly hurtful to my brain since everyone is saying “yeah, that link to the FSB was obvious glad someone demonstrated it.” So… I will just assume FSB=KGB and be done.
  
  Russian FSB is the successor of the Soviet KGB, so yeah, that works.
  
  Take for example Tor network (high number of exit nodes are controlled)
  
  I substantiated my claims about Telegram by a pretty deep technical analysis. Mind at least providing a link for your pretty strong claim about Tor?
  
  Except those apps or protocols that are truly decentralized (e.g. OMEMO in XMPP), these are good.
  
  Nope. Decentralization is important from power dynamics standpoint, but can actually be detrimental to information security due to (among others) metadata and complexity.
  
  source
  - adry@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    
    Mind at least providing a link for your pretty strong claim about Tor?
    
    I don't have one. Thanks for asking, you made me actually reconsider the truthfulness of my own statement... I was just parroting back what I heard many times, years ago, among the people that attended a hacklab from the city I was living in back then.
    
    Same goes with the 'tip' that said that Tor was initially funded by the US Military (which apparently is true, but then the project turn out to be independent.) These two "facts" were presented, and parroted back and forth in that space a lot.
    
    It would be great to have real analysis knowing which data centers or actors have the biggest control of exit nodes. If there's really a way to de-anonimyze any traffic from there.
    
    PS. Since we are on the topic, another concern regarding Tor network is the possibility of correlation attacks. It always strikes me how ISP stops providing connection at 'random' if you were a frequent user. Pretty sure there's legal forces behind it... but that's my paranoia. Now those minutes or hours offline sprinkled here and there to my router were a fact. Anyway, the dark web is really full of a lot sick places. I'd rather just stay away from it entirely and use a VPN for my privacy when searching media and stuff. That's a lesson I learned.
    
    source
    -> View More Comments
- SaltSong@startrek.website ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  
  If you were to use their network to take advantage of the features for anything that the “predator” behind doesn’t care, you’re fine.
  
  But what will the predator care about tomorrow? Or next year? And how confident are you that aggregate data is not what they want, for whatever reason?
  
  source
- SaltSong@startrek.website ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  
  If you were to use their network to take advantage of the features for anything that the “predator” behind doesn’t care, you’re fine.
  
  But what will the predator care about tomorrow? Or next year? And how confident are you that aggregate data is not what they want, for whatever reason?
  
  source
jarfil@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
How does this fit into these two pieces of news?

May 28, 2025 - xAI to pay Telegram $300M to integrate Grok into the chat app

June 10, 2025 - Russian MPs back new state messaging app to combat WhatsApp and Telegram
source
- rysiek@szmer.info ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I guess the xAI thing might just be a money grab for Telegram and Durov.
  
  The Russian MPs thing might be a red herring, there’s been plenty of stuff recently aimed at distracting from this Telegram story – including a brand new interview by Tucker Carlson with Durov.
  
  Telegram and Durov knew for weeks this is coming, as the investigative journalists had tor each out for comment. So they had time to prepare their little games.
  
  source
  - tastemyglaive@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    So what’s your explanation if Russia follows through on this messenger development? It’s not unrealistic at all. Do you dislike this point because it doesn’t play into your characterizatioj of Durov? He’s been very clear that his platform is for idiots and he will comply with any government’s law enforcement. Is the scandal just that it isn’t exclusive to the USA? The west’s telecom monopolies as they extend into law and covert action can’t last forever. Other countries are rapidly developing now, and as neoliberalism continues dying it will accelerate.
    
    source
    -> View More Comments
  - jarfil@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Hm, makes sense, but I feel like we’re still missing something.
    
    I saw comments about Durov, similar to this investigation, maybe around a month ago.
    
    With the xAI partnership news, I looked into it and found this nice thing:
    
    Tool to delete all your messages from chat/channel/ conversation on Telegram without requiring admin privileges - github.com/en9inerd/tgeraser
    
    In Telegram, you can clear them one by one, or date ranges, or use disappearing messages, but this tool still found some I had missed.
    
    (Disclaimer: I got pulled into Telegram by some friends leaving WhatsApp with the policy changes of 2021, my threat model is less one of FSB, and more one of indiscriminate AI siphoning for ad targeting)
    
    source
libertyoftheforest@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Thank you for your work. It’s sad we live in a world where honeypots and surveillance are a thing.

source
altkey@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
So, basically, this cool guy Durov sold an idea of a confidential messenger hosted by a russian FBI. Add there that you can’t lawfully buy a SIM wihtout a local passport, so everyone using it as a lawful citizens have everything they’ve posted right to their registered entity. And that you can link persons even without obvious account book snigging.

source