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Comment on Iraq War was preceded by the largest worldwide non-violent protests in history and the war happened anyway.

ochi_chernye@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

Old underpantsweevil’s hinges are certainly quite wobbly, but in this particular comment they’re simply providing some historical context for the 9/11 attacks. I don’t know how fair it is to describe the NA regime as brutal, relative to Afghanistan’s current and former governments, but that’s a pretty minor quibble.

They’ve stopped short of claiming that the attacks were justified, and the assertions made are broadly true. What in particular do you find objectionable, if I may ask?

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PugJesus@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

and fixate instead on a handful of retaliatory strikes against US interests.

Downplaying 9/11 as one of ‘a handful of retaliatory strikes against US interests.’

The Battle of Mogadeshu, which involved Black Hawk helicopters obliterating Somali mosques with hellfire missiles.

Not even vaguely what fucking happened.

The brutal occupation of the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, from 1992 to 2001 as a US-backed narco-state.

Fucking all of this.

The entire Iran-Iraq War, sponsored by US arms dealers and double-dealing diplomats, which resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Arab and Persian young people.

That we sold to both sides of the Iran-Iraq War is undeniable; the idea that the war itself was our fault and that 9/11 is just ‘blowback’ for that is fucking insane.

The occupation of Saudi Arabia by a western-backed military dictatorship going back nearly a century.

Christ, I don’t even know where to begin.

The violent overthrow of democracies from Indonesia to Egypt in pursuit of neoliberal international trade policy.

We were involved in the violent overthrow of many democracies throughout the years, this I agree on. But funny enough, Egypt isn’t one of them. So this had potential to be a good point, but failed by being posted by someone utterly detached from reality.

9/11 didn’t happen in a vacuum any more than the Brian Thompson assassination or the aborted coup in South Korea. These have long historical tails that trace back to a geopolitical policy that’s racked up a staggering death toll.

'Whatabout’ing 9/11 by implicitly arguing against it as a ‘violent act of terrorism’ as originally quoted, and then trying to justify it by the implicit comparison of 9/11 with the French fucking Revolution of the oppressed lower classes finally striking back against their oppressor.

Do you really not see any of these as objectionable.

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- ochi_chernye@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
  
  Downplaying 9/11 as one of ‘a handful of retaliatory strikes against US interests.’
  
  The language is provocative, but factually accurate.
  
  Not even vaguely what fucking happened.
  
  Yeah, it seemed plausible, but I couldn’t find any evidence at all that this took place. Fair enough.
  
  Fucking all of this.
  
  Yeah, it’s some real tanky-tonk incendiary language. And the timeline’s all wrong. The US-backed regime started in 2001, and lasted until 2021. Seems like they just grabbed the first couple of years from the wikipedia article.
  
  That we sold to both sides of the Iran-Iraq War is undeniable; the idea that the war itself was our fault and that 9/11 is just ‘blowback’ for that is fucking insane.
  
  It does appear that the current historical consensus is that the Carter administration did not give Saddam the proverbial green light for the invasion. However, there are more than enough contemporaneous claims to the contrary to convince anyone who’d rather believe that they did.
  
  Christ, I don’t even know where to begin.
  
  I mean, fuck the house of saud. And the US does share responsibility for all their depredations, just as it shares fucking bibi’s.
  
  We were involved in the violent overthrow of many democracies throughout the years, this I agree on. But funny enough, Egypt isn’t one of them. So this had potential to be a good point, but failed by being posted by someone utterly detached from reality.
  
  Yeah, the CIA may have helped coordinate the 1952 coup against the Egyptian monarchy, but doesn’t appear to have precipitated the 2011 overthrow of Mubarak. Happily, this gets me out of diving into whether or not Mubarak’s government could plausibly be called a democracy. Plenty of truth there, otherwise; a misstep, as you say.
  
  'Whatabout’ing 9/11 by implicitly arguing against it as a ‘violent act of terrorism’ as originally quoted, and then trying to justify it by the implicit comparison of 9/11 with the French fucking Revolution of the oppressed lower classes finally striking back against their oppressor.
  
  Yeah, the French Revolution parallel is a real stretch.
  
  Do you really not see any of these as objectionable.
  
  Oh, of course I do. I just have really low expectations when it comes to the veracity of claims made by lemmy tankies in general, inclusive of underpantsweevil. I don’t disagree with you—I was just mildly surprised to see your response, given the average factual content of any of their posts.
  
  Thank you for taking the time to respond! I hadn’t read about some of this stuff for a while, and wouldn’t have otherwise. Best of luck to you.
  
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