Comment on Deceive Inc. Developer Sweet Bandits Shuts Down

• chryan@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I have no idea how any game client and server implementations work (outside of games I’ve actually worked on), and I’m pretty certain you don’t either, so saying something is “zero effort to add” is presumptuous and naive.

  Left 4 Dead is primarily a PvE game and can be played without touching the PvP aspect at all, and my original comment is targeted at primarily PvP games.

  None of what you’ve said solves any of the issues that I pointed out, only “look at how much extra gameplay you might get!”, and that’s assuming the devs took the time to make their game easily moddable.

  For a primarily PvP game, the biggest challenge a studio (especially a small or mid-sized one) faces is gaining a large enough population of players early on. Without critical mass, the player base will rapidly dwindle because people get tired of waiting in queues for their games to start (whether it’s by matchmaking or finding a custom server).

  Providing examples of games from Valve doesn’t prove anything because Valve is an extreme outlier. They can afford to put a game out with zero marketing on their part and achieve 170k player concurrency - what other studio has that?

  I’m not disputing the potential advantages that you’ve brought up - I’m only trying to explain the rationale that devs without virtually infinite time, effort and money have to contend with when working on a PvP game.

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  • ocassionallyaduck@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Sorry man, but the fundamental backend of IP based matchmaking is a prerequisite to skill based matchmaking. At a high level, the skill rankings make an ELO value or similar ranking and feed that alobg woth player status into the active player pool for the region. The active player pool then feeds the game client the ip sets for the current match.

    Literally all these games are peer hosted, and require this. Once the match is setup they literally drop you into a lobby (this part is visible to you) and fill it with IPs (invisible). That is as old as DOOM.

    So again, everything costs something as people aren’t free, but this is a function must exist to power the skill based matchmaking, and needs only be exposed in the shell.

    Also, its not just valve, its literally every PC game ever made before the mid 2000s. Jedi Knight II? Unreal Tournament? Quake 3? Hell emulated PS3 and Switch titles have shown this off as well. All of these are still playable today thanks to not exclusively using skill based matchmaking.

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    • chryan@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You’re completely missing the point I’m making - it’s nothing to do with how matchmaking works or how to get self-hosted servers to work.

      Your quote about “every game before the mid 2000s” is just reinforcing what I’m trying to tell you: no modern PvP game can get away with it anymore.

      The current average player who’s played any modern PvP game in recent memory expects to be able to click a PLAY button that puts them into a match. That is your default user experience expectation.

      If you require players to have to dig through a server list like people had to during the pre-mid-2000s, you lose players FAST.

      You dilute your player base by allowing people to play in self-hosted servers because your default user experience of clicking PLAY and getting into a game gets worse (less players means less diversity of player skill and lower player count).

      For a game and studio that has no existing reputation and players who will jump on their stuff, you don’t have the luxury of splitting your already potentially small player base.

      Modern PvP games that allow you to have custom games are all well-established and have a healthy player base.

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      • ocassionallyaduck@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        And you are missing my point.

        You don’t trade one for the other. You add this in the options menu, in a smaller font.

        Then when The Crew, X-Defiant, Lawbreakers, or any of the 30 other games that AAA publishers end server support for this year go down, the people who bought it aren’t left unable to play at all. Theres a fallback. And it does not affect matchmaking because it’s down the menu out of the way, and not the default matchmaking method. L

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