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Comment on CEO of Telegram messaging app arrested in France, say French media

SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

Because it’s a bad messenger which rolled their own encryption (a thing that should bever be done) and yet it’s still only in one-one chats in very few contexts.

They have lied constantly about various things including never having ads etc, they just silently updated that they would and expected people to be fine with it.

Sure, piracy is okay, but there’s lots of other bad things that go on it which is immoral and unethical and they don’t care enough to do anything about it.

In short: It is not at all a private messenger and lacks any type of good moderation.

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AsudoxDev@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Instead, we have SimpleX, Matrix, XMPP, and Briar. They’re ultimately better than Telegram.

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- SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  SimpleX is not as good as other offerings yet, it is very lacking in features and frustrating to use for the few it does have.
  
  Matrix has bad encryption: soatok.blog/…/security-issues-in-matrixs-olm-libr…
  
  XMPP also has not very useful encryption (though not bad imo, it’s just not user friendly nor on all the time or in every client): soatok.blog/2024/08/04/against-xmppomemo/
  
  Briar isn’t there yet on every device, it doesn’t have feature parity on all devices/OSs and can’t be used on all devices/OS.
  
  Signal is the only one really worth considering at the moment in my opinion for most users, good features, and for actually proven encryption.
  
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  - AsudoxDev@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I actually think that too. People just think that providing their phone numbers makes them less private when privacy does not mean anonymity.
    
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    SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Yeah. Phone numbers are less of an issue now what with usernames and with certain options chosen no one can find you by phone number on Signal.
    
    I do agree with them to some degree that tying accounts to phone numbers should be removed or at least optional, but it’s less of an issue now.
    
    I think a lot of people make the mistake of thinking privacy means “the maxmimum amount of privacy at all times” and whilst that’s understandable it’s not a thing that is likely in this current world nor does everyone need it, which is why people can and should be doing accurate threat modelling for themselves, which most don’t.
    
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    uis@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    People just think that providing their phone numbers makes them less private when privacy does not mean anonymity.
    
    Yeah, people just think that providing their phone numbers makes local police able to easily find them and insert soldering iron into their rectum when privacy does not mean that that police will not easily find you for what you said on the internets. Wait, what?
    
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uis@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

which rolled their own encryption (a thing that should bever be done)

Signal is bad then?

It is not at all a private messenger and lacks any type of good moderation.

So in which direction you want it go? More private or more moderated?

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- SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Did Signal roll their own encryption? I am unaware of this if so. Even if it is the case, it has been audited heavily, something which telegram have repeatedly either failed to do or moved the goalposts every time it has been audited. Telegram is not a secure messenger.
  
  I think I was explaining why people could see it as bad, not that I particularly want more global moderation.
  
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  - uis@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Did Signal roll their own encryption?
    
    Yes. Even entire new algoritgm - Double Ratchet.
    
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    SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Okay, interesting. I still think my points about it stand though.
    
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- todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  Signal is bad then?
  
  Yeah. Why use X3DH when there are algorithms that already exist and we know are secure?
  
  So in which direction you want it go? More private or more moderated?
  
  Privacy is good, but when the public chatrooms are distributing child porn, you can’t use encryption as an excuse not moderating. Failure to moderate illegal content is a crime.
  
  Let the pedos run their own Matrix server or something. You can’t be knowingly providing comms and distribution to child pornographers.
  
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  - SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Are you saying Signal uses bad encryption? I genuinely am not sure if this is sarcasm or genuine.
    
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  - BuxtonWater@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    But where do you draw the line between catching these people and not invading the privacy of every single user of the software? Because so far no one has found a solution despite a decade or more of attempts.
    
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