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CaptainSpaceman@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

Reminded that even black people owned slaves because it was the way to wealth during the time period.

Reminder that almost all pirates traded in slaves as well after they captured them from merchant ships.

Please understand, im not condoning slavery or the unethical actions of a president. Merely that it was a sign of the times much like the elite business owners of the world who trade in wage slaves today.

The path to wealth (read:power) always goes through the workers.

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greencactus@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
That is true only to some extent. Frances Wright, who admittedly lived later than Washington (1795-1852), was one of the most vocal public abolitionists in the USA to the extent of my knowledge. Specifically, she was a feminist and abolitionist. Both she and Jefferson were Epicureans and knew the sources well, but she drew other, more ethical, conclusions, and supported the fight for abolition.

It is important to keep in mind that she was living later than Jefferson, and thus had access to different sources than he did. However, her example demonstrates that it was not impossible, even back then, to recognize that owning slaves was wrong and unethical. While I agree that it was typical for the elites to do it regardless, I want to emphasize that the sources to recognize that slavery was wrong were already there. Many people simply chose to ignore it.

Thus my stance is that it definitely was a sign of the times that it was widespread, I think the defining feature of the time was that people chose to ignore ethical conclusions. It isn’t just a sign of the time that people kept slaves - it was sign of the time that people chose to keep slaves even though they could’ve recognized that it was wrong and unethical.

I hope my point is understandeable. Just adding my two cents :)

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- CaptainSpaceman@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Im kinda making the same point, but moreso that modern wealthy elites trade in wage slaves today and still have highly unethical practices, and its those exact practices that give them their wealth and power.
  
  Ethical people dont tend to climb the societal ladder
  
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Stovetop@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I’m inclined to disagree with this take if only for the fact that many contemporaries of the time recognized that slavery was immoral, and the topic of abolition was one of the earliest controversies in the US before Washington was even president.

Just because everyone in power is doing evil, heinous things does not excuse the evil, heinous things. If you want to make the argument that it was normalized, that’s one thing, but the slaveowners of that day knew what they were doing and deserve condemnation because of it.

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- CaptainSpaceman@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I called it unethical and said it doesnt excuse anything
  
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  - Stovetop@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Sure, though I guess I’m wondering what angle you’re coming from, then.
    
    Not to say this was your intention, but a lot of people try to “justify” the fact that many of the founding fathers owned slaves, even when it is seen as reprehensible today, as a product of contemporary values. My main point is that slavery was viewed just as negatively then as it is today by everyone except the slaveowner class, of which Washington was a member. But because Washington is frequently positioned as some kind of pseudo-mythology figure representing pure American values (e.g. this post), I often see a lot of mental gymnastics used to explain why he still had slaves, often citing his decision to free his slaves in his will and signing some anti-slavery measures passed in congress as indicators that, deep down inside, he really opposed slavery all along. Yet he still lived and died a slaveowner.
    
    So I just needed to clarify my point, namely that slavery was seen as unethical then as it is today. Washington became president in 1789, but even prior to that, slavery was a hotly debated topic at the 1787 constitutional congress, during which time the US was already dividing itself into slave states and free states. That’s when we see things like the three-fifths compromise, where southern slave states attempted to use their slave populations to gain more representation in government over the more populous free states. When a state has to leverage its own population of enslaved people to preserve their power against the growing abolitionist movement, it’s inexcusable. If Washington recognized that but still decided that he was fine with using his hundreds of slaves to reinforce Virginia’s economic power and representation in government, he should be seen as a coward more than a role model.
    
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