Comment on So is Israel just going to finish Palestine off?
SleezyDizasta@lemmy.world 5 months agoIf you actually took into account the context, it’s very obvious that I said I don’t care about your claim that conflict is old and goes back many years. Nobody is disputing that. My point is that you made specific claim, which is that Israel wants to annex the Palestinian territories entirely as their ultimate goal, however, that is blatantly false because Israel literally gave up their settlements in Gaza voluntarily in 2005 and unilaterally existed. If their ultimate goal is complete conquest, why would they have done such a move? This event contradicts your thesis and disproves your claim.
Varyk@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
A lot of unnecessary fluff, but you do have a question hidden down there.
Let’s answer your question.
Paraphrased: “After decades of colonization, why would Israel publicly state that they were ending all illegal ongoing colonization?”
Because they already took most of the land(see picture) and didn’t have to give any back.
Because there was a lot of complaints about them colonizing Palestine, especially as the internet became more popular and people became more aware of the illegal Israeli colonization of Palestinian land.
By publicly stating that Israel would no longer annex Palestinian land, they didn’t have to give up any of the land they already colonized over the past half century, civilians could continue to colonize Palestinian land because it wasn’t official government or military colonization, and people would be mollified.
And it worked.
You apparently aren’t even aware they were still colonizing Palestine because they put out a press release that said “no backsies, but some of us will stop officially colonizing this country after 60 years”.
The civilians are still settling Palestinian land(they never stopped) that has been now evacuated because, you know, they’re killing all the Palestinians.
aljazeera.com/…/israeli-settlement-expansion-in-p…
aljazeera.com/…/how-israeli-settlers-are-expandin…
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SleezyDizasta@lemmy.world 5 months ago
What fluff? I wrote 5 sentences lmao
Yeah, this isn’t going to fly by me. This is just the strawman fallacy. That is NOT what I asked. I asked a very simple and straight forward question:
This is clearly in reference to their unilateral exit in 2005 from Gaza. If you want to have a discussion with me then at least have the decency to be honest. I won’t respond to an answer about a question I didn’t ask, but I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt to answer the actual question I asked. If you can’t help but be disingenuous then I’m afraid this discussion will end with my comment here.
Al Jazeera is literally a state sponsored propaganda outlet that is owned by the authoritarian theocracy of Qatar. This outlet is a bad source in general, but it’s notorious for it’s misinformation and outright when it comes to this specific conflict. If this is where you get your information then I’m not surprised why your talking points are nothing than inaccurate propaganda.
This image is a prime example of what propaganda looks like. I know you don’t have any, but let’s use our critical thinking skills for a bit and analyze why this picture is complete trash:
Now what did we learn from all of this little exercise? A little of critical thinking can go a long way in recognizing and dispelling propaganda. Try it some time!
Varyk@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
Wow, what a miss you took.
I hope that didn’t take you a long time.
Your argument for the colonization is that the Palestinian settlements is even smaller than it appears to be on the map.
So people only own the land of the country they’re standing directly upon?
You should go argue that to literally any country in the world where that is not correct.
However,
That’s exactly what the Israeli government is arguing as the reason it’s okay for them to continue to illegally colonize Palestine.
It’s also not true, but you don’t seem very concerned with the truth.
As for pretending to read the article incorrectly so that you can argue against it, that’s just you arguing against yourself.
Not super relevant.
Your arguments;
Nope, you made that up and it is not relevant to the amount of land that Israel has illegally annexed from Palestine.
Colors are propaganda: doubtful, and it is not relevant to the amount of land that Israel has illegally annexed from Palestine for the past 70 years
Nope, the first map details the settlement area of the Palestinian people. Again, you can look at border maps for many countries, you’ll be shocked that people are not standing on every square inch of their country. Your argument here also is not relevant to the amount of land that Israel has illegally annexed from Palestine for the past 70 years.
Colors(you already did this) are not relevant to the amount of land that Israel has illegally annex from Palestine for the past 70 years.
“It’s not stealing land because fewer countries recognized Palestine as a country then.”
I mean…Taiwan…
Actually I’ll explain this because it doesn’t seem like you understand much about national politics. Or geography. Or colonization.
145 countries recognize Palestine as a country.
A dozen (12, for you) countries recognized Taiwan as a country
If Taiwan gets annexed by China, it’s still going to be a country being annexed(land being stolen) by China, even if not everybody is willing to recognize Taiwan as a country yet.
Also, pretty irrelevant to the amount of land that Israel has illegally annexed from Palestine for the past 70 years.
Greeeeat.
All you’re doing here is arguing that Russia, annexing Crimea and trying to annex Ukraine is totally just because they want it.
It’s as if… This statement is irrelevant to the amount of land that Israel has a legally annexed from Palestine for the past 70 years.
Not a shocker, but still.
And 8. The most bizarre argument. There’s no source for this map?
Like, how do you get such s basic thing incorrect? Do you even know how search engines work?
Here’s a bunch of sources for that map, even with different colors for your weird color fetish.
You’ll have to come up with all new reasons why these different colors scare you.
visualizingpalestine.org/…/http-visualizingpalest…
www.palestineportal.org/…/maps-loss-of-land/
researchgate.net/…/Figure-1-Showing-the-Loss-of-t…
Here’s one on your side, they used different colors and swear that the map is wrong;
…org.au/…/disappearing-palestine-the-maps-that-li…
Unfortunately, their “correct” maps begin and end in the exact same place and still highlight disappearing Palestinian territory, and they don’t even include the illegal settlements by Israeli civilians.
My answer completely and credibly answers your question:
Israel made that disingenuous 2005 statement because they knew they didn’t have to give any land back to Palestine, because they knew that Israeli civilian settlers would continue to annex Palestine, and because it would make people like you believe that they stopped colonizing Palestine, contrary to all of the evidence of continued Israeli settlement of Palestinian land in the ensuing years.
Including right now.
Where they are colonizing Palestine and putting up residential neighborhoods.
That’s in the sources from my previous comment that you seem a bit wary to mention.
Here’s the BBC reporting on the continued illegal Israeli settlement of Palestine.
www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68490034
Here’s the times of Israel, proudly declaring their intent to illegally settle Palestinian land, sanctioned by the defense ministry.
timesofisrael.com/government-panel-greenlights-ne…
Here’s PBS, describing Israel planning to illegally annexed and colonize Palestine:
pbs.org/…/israel-plans-to-build-3300-new-settleme…
Here’s Reuters describing The ongoing illegal annexation and settlement of Palestine by Israel:
reuters.com/…/israel-advances-peak-number-west-ba…
Go ahead, please try to explain how all of these sources, including Israel and their ministry of defense stating that they are going to annex Palestine, are just kidding about the illegal annexation of Palestine.
Your argument that the colors are wrong has nothing to do with the number of times Israel has invaded, razed, annexed and colonized Palestine, nor with the amount of civilians it’s executed or with schools, hospitals it’s bombed.
That was a pretty fun victory lap for me.
Keep swinging though, I like dancing on laurels
SleezyDizasta@lemmy.world 5 months ago
You’re so disingenuous and brain dead that it’s literally not worth my time to engage you.