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Comment on 'LLM-free' is the new '100% organic' - Creators Are Fighting AI Anxiety With an ‘LLM-Free’ Movement

But even if you don’t, have some respect for the AI artists out there who put time and effort into their craft.

What kind of time and effort? How is AI art a skill that is comparable to real art? I am genuinely asking here, I’d like to understand your work process.

I am not a visual artist, but I have composed my own music and the amount of time and/or effort needed to create a comparable piece using generative AI is not even close to being the same. I think there is a place for AI tools that assist artists, but people generating entire pieces using AI and then referring to themselves as “artists” is honestly delusional and sad. I hope that’s not what you are referring to here.

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Soundhole@lemm.ee ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Well now that’s just close minded!

Go back and read discussions about synthesisers when they first arrived on the scene and you will see much wailing and gnashing of teeth about how synths are not real instruments and etc and so on. Then do the same thing when hip-hop goes mainstream and people say it’s not “real” music because the musicians don’t perform with “real” instruments.

You see where I’m going with this? There’s lots of examples like these in music and visual arts and they nearly always stem from ignorance.

I don’t know anything about AI music generation, but visual art can be generated by AI models on local machines with a great amount of depth. Further, people fees their handmade work into the AI and manipulate that, so this idea that folks just write a sentence and the computer barfs out an image is uninformed.

Anyways, I’m blabbing. Hope that helps.

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- Ilandar@aussie.zone ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  You see where I’m going with this?
  
  No, I’m sorry but those are terrible examples. Synthesisers still require full creative control and an understanding of sound production techniques to create a custom sound. Some musicians rely on presets and samples, but even then they still need to be capable of actually composing a piece of music. Also, the debate was largely about whether synthesisers could be considered real instruments, not whether the music created by synthesisers was real music. The Hip Hop comparison is completely irrelevant and an even worse attempt at conflating genuine criticism of AI “musicians” with “old people are just mad”.
  
  I don’t know anything about AI music generation
  
  It’s literally just prompts AFAIK, so the people making it don’t require any musical talent, ability or creativity. They are just asking someone/something else to make them music that has a certain sound. It’s the equivalent of a monarch commissioning a piece of work from their court musician and then claiming they are a musician too.
  
  visual art can be generated by AI models on local machines with a great amount of fine tuning and depth.
  
  Are there specific pieces of AI art software people use? Any popular ones you can recommended to help me understand the process better?
  
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  - Soundhole@lemm.ee ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Ah, well you are picking apart the examples instead of taking in the point. Well, I tried.
    
    To answer your question, yes. Automatic1111 and ComfyUI are two of the most popular.
    
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    Ilandar@aussie.zone ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It was a terrible and irrelevant point, as I explained. Thanks for the links though, I will check them out.
    
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jarfil@beehaw.org ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

What kind of time and effort?

AI art can require training a model, or a LORA for a model, which requires choosing a series of samples and annotating them for the parts of you want to incorporate. After that, writing a prompt can involve several paragraphs with the definitions of what you want it to output, with a series of iterations, followed by a personal choice of the output.

How is AI art a skill that is comparable to real art?

How is stacking 10 buckets of sand and letting them fall in an art gallery, comparable to real art? Dunno, but they call it that: “real art”.

Art is a communication act that requires some sort of vision, intended to elicit some sort of emotional response in the receiver, and a series of steps to achieve that.

As long as there is a vision and an intent, the series of steps required to create art with AI, are comparable to any other series of steps conducting to the creation of art with any other medium.

For a rough estimate, you can compare the number and difficulty of the steps, and the effectiveness of the communication.

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- Ilandar@aussie.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I’m not sure equating AI art to sand bucket man is the glowing endorsement you think it is.
  
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  - jarfil@beehaw.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I think you misunderstood: “sand bucket man” is the bar for human art.
    
    AI art has been above that for at least a decade, maybe two. Modern AI art, is orders of magnitude farther, even with the simplest of prompts.
    
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    Ilandar@aussie.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    How is stacking 10 buckets of sand and letting them fall in an art gallery, comparable to real art? Dunno, but they call it that: “real art”.
    
    Your insinuation here was that AI art is “real art” because someone once stacked 10 buckets of sand and called it “real art”. It comes across as pretty desperate that you relied on a comparison with something as questionable as this to argue that AI art is the equivalent of traditional art. As you said, there will always be artists and “artists”. Sounds like AI “artists” fit in quite well with the latter group.
    
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unconfirmedsourcesDOTgov@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Not OP but familiar enough with open source diffusion image generators to be able to chime in.

Now I’d argue that being an artist comes down to being able to envision something in your mind’s eye and then reproduce it in the real world using some medium, whether it’s a graphite pencil, oil paint, a block of marble, Wacom tablet on a pc, or even through a negotiation with an AI model. Your definition might be different, but for the sake of conversation this is how I’m thinking about it.

The work flow for an AI generated image can have a few steps before feeling like it sufficiently aligns with your vision. Prompting for specific details can be tricky, so usually step 1 is to generate the basic outline of the image you’re after. Depending on your GPU or cloud service, this could take several minutes or hours before you get a basis that you can work with. Once you have the basic image, you can then use inpainting tools to mask specific areas of the image and change specific details, colors, etc. This again can take many many generations before you land on something that sufficiently matches your vision.

This is all also after you go through the process of reviewing and selecting one of the hundreds of models that have been trained specifically for different types of output. Want to generate anime-style art? There’s a model for that, want something great at landscapes? There’s a different one for that. Surely you can use an all-purpose model for everything, but some models simply don’t have the training to align to your vision, so you either choose to live with ‘close enough’ or you start downloading new options, comparing them with your existing work flow, etc.

There’s certainly skill associated with the current state of image generation. Perhaps not the same level of practice you need to perfectly represent a transparent veil in graphite, but as with other formats I have a hard time suggesting that when someone represents their vision in the real world that it’s automatically “not art”.

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- Ilandar@aussie.zone ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  You keep using the word “vision”, but I have a hard time understanding how an AI artist has a vision equivalent to that of a traditional artist based on the explanation you’ve provided. It still sounds they are just cycling through AI generated options until they find something they like/that looks good. That is not the same as seeing something in your mind and then manually recreating that to the best of your ability.
  
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  - Zaktor@sopuli.xyz ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Is a photographer an artist? They need to have some technical skill to capture sharp photos with good lighting, but a lot of the process is designing a scene and later selecting among the photos from a shoot for which one had the right look.
    
    Or to step even further from the actual act of creation, is a creative director an artist? There’s certainly some skill involved in designing and recognizing a compelling image, even if you were not the one who actually produced it.
    
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    Ilandar@aussie.zone ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    You’re sort of stepping around the issue here. Are you confirming that AI art is about cycling through options blind until you stumble across something you like?
    
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- Pandemanium@lemm.ee ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  So if I walked into a restaurant that specialized in a certain cuisine (choosing the right one out of hundreds is a skill, right?) and wrote down a list of ingredients, and the restaurant made me a meal with those ingredients according to however the restaurant functions (nobody can see into the kitchen, after all), does this make me a chef?
  
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  - unconfirmedsourcesDOTgov@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Is there any chance you’re at a kbbq or hotpot restaurant? Because then you get to cook the meal yourself, which is arguably chef-like.
    
    Jokes aside, I see the comparison you’re making and it’s not a bad one. I’d counter by giving the example of a menu - when you get to a restaurant you’re given a menu with text descriptions of the food you can receive from the kitchen. Since this is an analogy and not an exact comparison, let’s say that a meal on the menu is like the starting point of the workflow I described.
    
    Based on that you have an idea of what the output will be when you order - but let’s say you don’t like mushrooms and you prefer your sauce on the side. When you make your order you provide those modifications - this is like inpainting.
    
    Certainly you’re not a ‘chef’, but if the dish you design is both bespoke and previously unimaginable, I’d argue that at the very least you contributed to the creative process and participated in creating something new that matches your internal vision.
    
    Not exactly the same but I don’t think it’s entirely different.
    
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