Comment on Anyone else?
GlitterInfection@lemmy.world 5 months agoIn the realm of toxic masculinity power fantasies there is no room for a woman who acts kind of like a normal person.
The show was written to make you root for Walt and dislike Skylar because of that, but is she really that unlikeable if you step back and look at her actions and motivations?
My whole point was that her motivations and actions are reasonable and she is mostly in the right (ie she is “good” not evil), but her character’s mannerisms are still extremely hate-able.
It’s not about acting like a normal person and it’s certainly not about being a woman.
My point was that the show exaggerates her mannerisms to give Walt motivation rather than to create a fully fleshed out character. She’s not a real woman, but a symbol of how men have become emasculated by their wives’ “wearing the pants” in the family. At least early on that’s her the purpose she serves.
She grows as a character, and ends up having more agency, but only in the confines of Walt’s domination of their lives with his selfishly motivated, and traditionally toxic masculine, choices.
And I don’t think you meant it this way, you can’t really easily separate disliking her from being a woman. I don’t mean to imply that you dislike her because she’s a woman, but that her character’s role is to be a controlling wife. It’s an inherently gendered character that relies heavily on preconceptions of what a woman should and shouldn’t be in a relationship with a man who is a main character in a story.
I think it’s telling that she is considered unlikable enough to even warrant discussing in a show where the main character is a multi-murderer monster who destroyed the lives of everyone he loved, and the main villains include nazis, cartels, lawyers and corporate shills.
That, for anyone, she’s the most hated character in all of that should cause anyone to question their assumptions on her.
The characters role is to be a controlling spouse. If Walt was gay married to a man who behaved the same way Skyler does, they would be just as frustrating to watch on screen. It’s not inherently gendered, you’re putting that on it.
She isn’t a controlling spouse, she’s a controlling housewife in an exaggerated disappointing version of a post-nuclear American family.
The show states over and over again that Walt believes a man provides for his family… a necessarily and pointedly gendered role that is central to his entire character’s motivations. Skyler’s nagging is framed exactly in relation to his perceived shortcomings with respect to this gendered expectation.
In a gay relationship you don’t tend to just mirror straight relationships but the bottom replaces the women, or something. So you can’t just conjure Skyler as a dude and make it make any sense as a family.
When there are two or more men coming together, usually they all have their own separate careers and plans for life. There is no template gay relationships have to build off of, and having children is way more difficult and complicated. We have to define everything for ourselves.
None of the tropes that are foundations of Breaking Bad work if you swap the genders of the characters. If walt were a woman nothing she does would make sense to the audience and the treatment from her annoyed husband would be absolute nonsense. Why would he expect her to provide for the family? Why would he expect her to man up? Etc?
Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
This the kind of surface level interpretation that makes me question people’s ability to reason.
GlitterInfection@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Sorry, I should have said that Skyler, the character, did nothing to deserve being disliked. The show was rigged to make you dislike her, in the sense that the storytelling was solely through Walt’s eyes, even in scenes he wasn’t present for.
But I didn’t say that. Vince Gilligan, creator of the show, said it.
indiewire.com/…/breaking-bad-vince-gilligan-skyle…
I also called it a “power fantasy.” The show’s pitch was to show a man turning himself from “Mr. Chips to Scarface.” It’s not a criticism, I loved the show. It took the power fantasy tropes and subverted them frequently. But at its heart that’s what it is.
If you’re upset that I said that it was about toxic masculinity, then I apologize. That was reductive of me. It explores hegemonic masculinity through the power fantasy trope, and it can be interpreted as either a celebration of or criticism of toxic masculinity depending on how you approach it.
Plenty of more well reasoned people than I could hope to be have written in depth on the subject. Someone even wrote a book in the subject.
If you were reacting to thinking I was putting the show down, which I wasn’t intending to do, then my bad. I could have worded it better. I was trying to make the point that it’s both intentional to not like Skyler, and also the obvious wrong take to not like her.
Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
Alright I love this, thank you!