The problem with a “beneficial to humanity” axis is that I think that most people think their political beliefs, if enacted, would be beneficial to humanity. Most people aren’t the villains of their own stories.
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reksas@sopuli.xyz 6 months agoentire “left and right” spectrum is quite stupid in my opinion. While it generally points towards what kind of thoughtset someone might have, it doesnt seem very beneficial and has been corrupted quite badly so that term for other side is red flag for the another side and drives people to think you cant have something from both ends.
There should be something else in its place, but i cant come up with anything better on the spot though. Personally i have tried to start thinking it on spectrum of beneficial to humanity as whole vs not beneficial
melmi@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
reksas@sopuli.xyz 6 months ago
If you think about it logically, there are some core things that are always good. Like considering everyone to be inherently equal. While there are things that muddle even this point, it still wont take away that you should always keep those core principles in mind. Religious teachings have pretty good point about this with “treat others like you want yourself be treated” and “love even your enemys”. That is the only logical way to do things because to do otherwise leads to all of us either just killing each other or making life miserable so we want die.
I had some other thought about this too, but i cant seem to be able to properly put it to words at the moment. But the idea was that we should all try to think about things without ego getting in the way and to never lie to oneself about anything or atleast admit to ourselves when we have to do so. The part i cant seem put to words is the part that ties to the previous thing i said.
melmi@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
I don’t think that “everyone is inherently equal” is a conclusion you can reach through logic. I’d argue that it’s more like an axiom, something you have to accept as true in order to build a foundation of a moral system.
This may seem like an arbitrary distinction, but I think it’s important to distinguish because some people don’t accept the axiom that “everyone is inherently equal”. Some people are simply stronger (or smarter/more “fit”) than others, they’ll argue, and it’s unjust to impose arbitrary systems of “fairness” onto them.
In fact, they may believe that it is better for humanity as a whole for those who are stronger/smarter/more fit to have positions of power over those who are not, and believe that efforts for “equality” are actually upsetting the natural way of things and thus making humanity worse off.
People who have this way of thinking largely cannot be convinced to change through pure logical argument (just as a leftist is unlikely to be swayed by the logic of a social darwinist) because their fundamental core beliefs are different, the axioms all of their logic is built on top of.
And it’s worth noting that while this system of morality is repugnant, it doesn’t inherently result in everyone killing each other like you claim. Even if you’re completely amoral, you won’t kill your neighbor because then the police will arrest you and put you on trial. Fascist governments also tend to have more punitive justice systems, to further discourage such behavior. And on the governmental side, they want to discourage random killing because they want their populace to be productive, not killing their own.
reksas@sopuli.xyz 6 months ago
Those are good points. But what i mean by that kind of thinking/system resulting in us killing eachothers is that its what i think to be the “endgame” for it. Ones in power exterminate those who they see undeserving of life, criteria for it keeps changing/rising and eventually last human kills second last human, to generalize a bit. And even if it doesnt result in that, it will result in life that isnt worth living for anyone but those select few that are on top of it, except for the hope of toppling it. Its deadend for humans.
MBM@lemmings.world 6 months ago
8 values has 4 different axes, instead of left/right
anlumo@feddit.de 6 months ago
The traditional separation is between individualist vs. social. Individualists value personal freedom over the prosperity of the community, while socials strife for welfare for everyone over personal life improvements.
Onihikage@beehaw.org 6 months ago
Blog commenter Frank Wilhoit made a now somewhat famous assertion that the human default for nearly all of history has been conservatism, which he defined as follows:
He then defined anti-conservatism as opposition to this way of thinking, so that would be to ensure the neutrality of the law and the equality of all peoples, races, and nationalities, which certainly sounds left-wing in our current culture. It would demand that a legal system which protects the powerful (in-groups) while punishing the marginalized (out-groups), or systematically burdens some groups more than others, be corrected or abolished.