Comment on I'm right and the other vegans are wrong

• SparrowHawk@feddit.it ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I never said you shouldn’t talk about it. I didn’t even say you personally shouldn’t talk the way you currently are. But do you understand that cultural change doesn’t happen just because you shout and scream at people who disagree with you? Even when you’re 100 percent right.

  You CANNOT blame regular people as much as you do. People are uneducated, evolutionarily primed to be manipulated, and defensive. I personally do not feel bad when I am blamed for that, I know it is bad, I agree. I already know I should eat even less meat than I do now, and slowly but steadily i am doing it. But it wasnt the shame that put me on this, it was the empathy, it was the curiosity, it was the EXACT OPPOSITE of shame that brought me on the path.

  Shame is for Christians. It brings Christian results. Us vs them. The radical vegan approach to communication enables the idea that veganism is ridiculous, not because it is wrong, but because it seems like its the only communication that gets through.

  You feel righteous anger, rightly so, but that anger when aimed at regular people you are trying (supposedly) to convince,just makes veganism seem a tantrum instead of a mission. The way you speak seems to me like you’re feeding your ego, not like you are saving the world.

  And what are you feeding it with? Other people’s shame. By definition, not a vegan source.

  Pardon my joke, but I felt like biting back since you took my honest attempt at communicating as just another excuse to bark and release your anger.

  Your fight is just, your energy is right. But “making people feel bad” isnt really a method. Just venting. I dont know the blueprint for a better way, but telling you this is my way of looking for help in searching one.

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  • kadotux@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Hey, thanks for responding.

    First of all, I admit that I do get emotional on the subject. And I do realize that when I lose the calmness, it really is counterproductive on the cause. Here again was a great example. I don’t think I was unreasonable or “screaming in anger” when I initially disagreed with with the original point that “radicalism is always stupid” (hey, isn’t that a radical thought to begin with :P )

    But my second post was just pure barking, as you said, and I was venting at you. Sorry for that. :/

    It’s difficult to be calm, when you get constantly made fun of, get challenged and so forth. And it seems like whenever I speak about the subject, it’s always a bad thing. I have opted to not talking about it IRL for a couple of years now, and it’s frustrating, and that frustration sometimes overflows and I’ll get all emotional like here.

    You had some really good points, and I’ll retreat to contemplate them. Thanks for being reasonable when I wasn’t.

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    • SparrowHawk@feddit.it ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Hey, dont mention it, I totally get it. This society primes us for the reaction you had, we are constantly ready for a fight, and it is not your fault, it is our conditioning. Finding the way to dispel that curse is the way we get to people’s hearts.

      Just a side not, I absolutely do not think that radicalism is always stupid, or stupid at all. “Deep roots are not reached by frost”, we need conviction and strong ideals, and to further clarify, I do think that veganism is the end goal for a truly advanced society and a healed world and people.

      The point is just that to communicate radical ideas we do not need to be in constant anger. Most people respond well when you engage with them and their differences with curiosity, asking questions instead of directly challenging their ways right away. Our communication must be like water, seeking the path of least resistance, yes, but always ending at the sea or a lake. People already know (in some level) that their lifestyles are wrong. That isnt the Epiphany. The epiphany is helping them build up the idea that it is not to late, that they are not irredeemable, and that change is possible.

      People do not want to feel irredeemable and as you said, when talking to Normies abt veganism ppl get defensive. It is largely the fault of propaganda, but more critically, it’s the shame angle that always, always fails. Responsibility is a different concept, and it melds better in the mind

      The only way to change is with grace, compassion, and when needed, severity and discipline, distributed sparingly.

      You have to imagine current human society as a collective made of children, fragile, sensitive, impulsive. They will mirror what they perceive, despite your intentions

      I hope this helps, and thank you for reading my comment and being graceful

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      • kadotux@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        <3 You’re cool.

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