Comment on Fact Check
voldage@lemmy.world 1 day agoUSA as entity deserves hate of the world, and hate radicalizes people into becoming “psychopaths”. Acknowledging the fact that USA created opportunity for 9/11 to happen doesn’t mean it was good that it did. Even now, when USA is waging this senseless war with Iran and people see their families murdered for no other reason than Trump wanting to steal some money, that is creating more people so full of hatred and frustration, that they will see violence against anyone they associate with their enemy as justified. I’m not (and neither is anyone speaking of blowback) saying that the cycle of violence is good or justified, but recognizing that USA starting it and continuing to escalate it LEADS to the potential blowback is necessary. Furthermore, nobody is saying that Al-Quaida or Osama bin Laden bere justified in planning and executing 9/11. And I’ll even go as far as to say that they might have done that sooner or later regardless of USA murder spree in middle east, though it would be completely different timeline and very unlikely. They didn’t do that in vacuum, however. They had all the reasons (and don’t forget about training and weapons they received from USA) to hate, to be radicalized the way they were, to go crazy from the suffering that was inflicted on them. Do you understand now? Nobody is saying that 9/11 was good, or that Al-Quaida was good, or that the victims deserved to die. America deserved a blowback for what it did in middle east. It created support for those ideas in the minds of people who lost everything because of USA. The more hatred it caused, the more likely a blowback became. Only reason I say “deserve” is not the perfect word to explain it, is because the way it is usually used suggests some sort of justice being served, invokes emotions of satisfaction with someone bad getting punished and so forth. However, you claiming that “america deserved 9/11” means the same thing as “people who died in 9/11 deserved it” is just sophistry on your side. You know they aren’t the same statement. And if you didn’t, well, now you do. Stop being obstinate.
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
That’s a lot of text to just rationalize why it’s fine for you to be the same as the people you hate. You’re just white washing your hatred with a very thin veneer of something to do with nation states which is exactly the same thing the US does when it bombs countries.
You’re no different from the people you hate. You should be judged in exactly the same way you’re judging others.
voldage@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Who are the people you claim I hate, and what judgement have I bestowed on anyone? You’re barely making any sense with your responses. And I’m pretty sure you’re not reading mine.
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
The very first thing you said. Do you normally act surprised when people say you’re hateful when you furiously type out some long text (without paragraph breaks) about why a whole country deserves to be hated in an effort to rationalize violence against citizens of that country?
voldage@lemmy.world 1 day ago
You’re misattributing hatred, and trying to twist my words into something they never were. You claim that I personally hate some people, and as a proof of that you cite me writing that (explicitly “as entity”) USA deserves to be hated by the world. Not only is USA not its people, I didn’t even say that I hate USA. I said that USA deserves hatred for what it does, and plenty of people that were negatively influenced hate it. USA is hated. USA did things deserving of hate. People are radicalized by this hate into extremism. Are you disputing that?
Next, I never claimed that any violence against any people is rational. As a matter of fact, I explicitly stated that perpetuating this cycle of violence isn’t just. But people who suffered incredible violence from the USA won’t agree with me, and those people will continue harboring hatred towards USA.
Third, I’m not adding line breaks when I respond from the toilet, get real. And neither am I “typing furiously”, I’m trying to explain to you why the phrase “USA deserved 9/11” isn’t emotionally charged and is just objective point of view. I don’t know what did you read from the “they didn’t deserve it” or many other points I made about the victims not being the ones to blame. Also, you still failed to explain your threat of me being “judged in exactly the same way you’re judging others”. So far I’m judging you as a troll at best and illiterate at worst.
USA did nasty stuff that caused people to be radicalized and to take arms against its people. I don’t know how you’re reading from that that I approve of actions Al-Quaida killing innocent people. The blowback was expected. That doesn’t mean it was justified. You do have to understand that 9/11 was a result of USA foreign policy. I don’t know man, you should reread (or do that for the first time) my previous comments. Understanding the history that led to 9/11 is necessary to understand why it happened, and claiming that USA didn’t do a lot to deserve it happening is just either ignorant or delusional.
Have you ever lost anyone? I don’t know if I need to explain how loss makes people act and believe in irrational things, or how trauma can reshape kind people into violent extremists, but I hope you can extend the same empathy you have for the victims to 9/11 to the victims of USA wars, and understand how the violence against people can make those people act violent. Are you saying that a young person seeing their whole family getting murdered by American bombs shouldn’t be expected to grow to hate USA? And if that person, through their entire life, is assured in this belief that all USA does is murder and pillage by seeing USA doing exactly that, are you surprised that they might become an extremist? Become irrational enough to do a terror attack? And if none of those make any sense to you, and you can’t empathize with any of those emotions to understand how was it USA’s action that led to this, how exactly do YOU think people get radicalized into this kind of extremism where they’re willing to do suicide missions?
Again, none of those is to justify them taking a life, neither of their victims nor theirs. It is to reinforce the point that they didn’t become like this on their own. I don’t know is such a concept like understanding actions of someone who’s different than you is foreign to you, but just make the effort to understand how violence perpetuated by USA might have caused some people be willing to do things like 9/11. Or, to rephrase that, how “USA deserved 9/11”. Which wasn’t good. Nor just. It was tragic. Enabled and caused by USA. Are you following now?
Also, I like how your reaction to long, structured arguments is “must be hateful”. You must have complicated relationship with books.